
The film focuses on a group of friends in Clairton, PA during the height of American involvement in Vietnam. As the film opens we meet three friends who will travel to Vietnam together, Mike (Robert De Niro), Nick (Christopher Walken) and Steven (John Savage) and their buddies Stan (John Cazale), Axel (Chuck Aspegren, real life foreman of the steel mill used in the film) and John (George Dzundza). Steven is getting married to a woman pregnant by another man, Nick is in love(?) with Linda (Meryl Streep) and Mike is on his own.
As the film opens we see the three friends saying their goodbyes to coworkers as they will be leaving for duty in Vietnam after the wedding and a hunting trip. The wedding and hunting trip comprise the first third of the movie (the movie has a neatly partitioned three-act story) and it's here that the film's own storytelling conflicts reveal themselves.
The director, Michael Cimino, was coming off of his only directorial effort, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, when he took on The Deer Hunter, a story he had co-developed for a couple of years. It's hard to say anything about one movie influencing or instructing upon the other since they are so very different but it seems that Cimino combined some of the basic camaraderie elements of Thunderbolt... with the meandering mise en scène of Robert Altman to mixed effect.
That mixed effect is the result of clashing styles, something from which Altman never suffered. For instance, in the opening fifteen minutes the audience is treated to several wandering scenes of the friends saying goodbyes, joking around, drinking beers and talking about anything but how vastly different their lives will soon be. None of it is done in close-up, no one line is given any special attention and all of it feels like documentary-style eavesdropping. In the middle of this is a stilted belabored scene, mercifully brief, of the old world (Russia) mother of Steven delivering this awful piece of exposition to the priest:
"I still do not believe this. My own boy with a strange girl and not so thin, if you understand my meaning...The next thing you know, he goes to Vietnam...I do not understand, Father. I understand nothing anymore, nothing...Can you explain? Can anyone explain?"
The scene is less than a minute but it's a minute so awful and ill-fitting it lingers beyond its screen time. This example is the first instance of something that will happen throughout the movie: Long, fascinating Altmanesque sequences in which we voyeuristically gaze upon the characters weaving in and out of their own lives abruptly interrupted by obviously scripted moments. A well written movie never seems scripted. When it does, it's hard to recover. The Deer Hunter does recover, however, and for most of the first act, the Altman style dominates and renders the more obviously scripted moments bearable. But the clashing styles isn't the only problem to be overcome. The other is the clearly labeled metaphors. I must be honest right now in the interest of full disclosure: When a movie starts speaking in metaphors, it can lose me pretty fast.

While it's true that many films, and much great art, deal in metaphor, the fact is The Deer Hunter wields its metaphors in such a paint-by-the-numbers style that even the most obtuse viewer should be able to match the right colors to the right numbers every time. Most viewers would probably surmise on their own that the deer hunting rituals of Mike were religious to him without having a chorus singing Orthodox hymns behind the action. And the chorus starts right when Mike spots the deer and begins his pursuit. The Deer Hunter doesn't miss an opportunity to point out what it's doing whenever it can. This happens in the wedding sequences as well when, in the middle of several minutes (the sequence is roughly 25 minutes long) of Altmanesque perusing, our heroes happen upon a Green Beret at the bar where another obviously scripted sequence takes place to let the viewer know that the macho dreams of Mike, Nick and Steven are but puffs of smoke. It's handled well enough, much more so than the earlier mother scene, but is unnecessary. In fact, it's completely unnecessary, so much so that the viewer feels a bit insulted that the scene is even happening.
After the wedding and hunting sequences the gang heads back to town, goes to John's bar, drinks some beer, listens to John play a longing piece on the piano as the distant sounds of a helicopter come over the soundtrack until we are burst into Vietnam, and the second act.
It is the Vietnam section of the film that caused the original controversies swirling around the film and contains its most famous scenes. But the scenes caused controversy for a wide variety of reasons, some valid, others less so. In Vietnam, Mike, Nick and Steven meet up, somehow, as a village is being bombed. Something happens (it's not clear what but vaguely looks like advancing Vietcong troops) and in the very next scene they are prisoners of war, held in a bamboo cage along the river. Here, they are forced to play Russian roulette for the amusement of their Vietcong captors. Steven is clearly suffering a mental break from all of it while Mike and Nick try to figure out what to do. Steven and Mike are pitted against each other and Steven gets the bullet in the chamber but the gun slips and he only grazes the top of his head. Both are returned to the cage and Mike tells Nick that the two of them will play next and he will get them out by demanding more bullets in the chamber, which he does and they do.
This is probably the single most famous scene in the whole film and one that worked exceedingly well for me as a young teenager taking in the horrifying, gritty brutality of it all. Seeing it again 25 years later the scene wasn't as nearly as gripping as I had remembered. Oh, it's done well and is quite gripping at times but not for the reasons I remembered. What stood out for me this time was not the actual scenes of Russian roulette but the scenes of Steven gasping for air in a state of shock every time he hears the revolver's hammer come down. John Savage is so extraordinary in the scene that it's baffling how he escaped nomination for his performance. Christopher Walken won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that year for his performance as Nick, and while he is excellent, I felt John Savage did something quite amazing with his very small part.
Later in the second act, after their escape, Nick is separated from Mike and Steven who make their way back home, although Steven loses his legs and won't leave the Veteran's hospital in Pittsburgh. Nick is lured in by a French man, a remnant of Vietnam's colonial period, who promises him riches playing Russian roulette. He never returns home.

The third act finds Mike back home, dealing with the loss of Nick and heartbreak of Steven. He turns to Linda for solace and the two form a bond as a means of keeping Nick alive between them. The third act has some good moments, particularly with the weaselly Stan getting his comeuppance by an angry Mike, sick of Stan's bullshit bravado in the face of what he's experienced. John Cazale, once again and for the last time in his acting career, excels at the role and reminds us how much the cinema lost when John Cazale succumbed to cancer at the all too young age of 42. The third act stumbles when Mike decides to go back for Nick as Saigon falls. Here, and for inexplicable reasons, Cimino inserts stock footage from the fall into the actual footage he's shot. It's inexplicable because the actual footage shot by Cimino is amazing and jarringly disrupted by news footage so far from visually matching the film's footage as to be almost comical.
To add to the faults of the third act, Mike's visit to find Nick is too pat. It's so easy and happens so quickly the viewer cannot help but ask, "Why didn't he just do this before he left?" That's a valid question because before he leaves Vietnam the first time he sees Nick and it's clear that Nick is unresponsive to him and going awol. And yet, nothing happens. Nonetheless, Mike does go back, finds him easily and challenges him to a game of Russian roulette, where Nick has been playing professionally for six years without getting a bullet in the chamber once. The viewer would be a fool to bet against that happening now that Mike has shown up.
And, of course, it does happen. It happens just as there is some sign that Nick might realize who Mike is. Afterwards, Mike returns home with his body, we watch the funeral and at John's bar, everyone joins in an impromptu singing of God Bless America as the film closes.
What surprised me more than anything this time around was how unmoving was the ending. The character of Nick is so removed from the film by the time we witness his suicide that he seems little different than any of the extras we have watched shoot themselves. Now, I don't know, however, if that is a fault of the film or not. Here's what I mean: When we see Nick wander off with the French man late in the second act we already know he's gone so by the time we see him again, we've adjusted to the loss. Imagine losing a friend at the height of your friendship with them. It would be devastating. Now imagine that same friendship, only this time you gradually grow apart, move apart, lose contact and then, years later learn of their death. The blow is now considerably cushioned and easier to take. And I think, or at least believe it's possible, that that's the intention of the film. If we view Nick as the POW/MIA, we see him as a loss already accounted for. When he physically dies, it's more of a relief than anything else.
The Deer Hunter has conflicts in its storytelling styles but in one area, cinematography, it excels from the first frame to the last. It was photographed by Vilmos Zsigmond and it's a beautiful piece of work. Zsigmond has the task of doing intimate interiors (the bar, Linda's trailer), claustrophobic interiors (the bamboo cage, the Russian roulette den), menacing exteriors (the journey up the river, the shots of the refugees fleeing), gorgeous exteriors (the mountains of Pennsylvania), expansive interiors (the Cathedral wedding) and even both interior and exteriors at once (the car scenes in the mountains). The fact that a single cinematographer handled that many different settings with the absolute majesty that Zsigmond achieves is an extraordinary feat, and while I realize it is cinematic blasphemy to write the words I am about to write, I think it deserved the Oscar more (just a tiny bit more) than the also extraordinary work of Néstor Almendros for Days of Heaven, which did win.

Another area of supreme achievement for The Deer Hunter is in its performances. There's not a bad one in the lot, with even one-time actor Chuck Aspegren doing a fine job with his limited role. While De Niro certainly deserved his nomination for Best Actor, its a film of supporting performances and picking just one, Christopher Walken, from the group left a lot of fine work unrecognized. There's the aforementioned John Savage, about as good as he's ever been, and John Cazale, also doing great work and Meryl Streep, unfamiliar to most audiences at the time, turning in an excellent performance as Linda. But George Dzundza, an actor everyone knows but far too few appreciate, turns in a performance at least the equal of everyone involved. In fact, it's his performance that extracts the most emotion as his character seems to wear his feelings on his sleeve. When he silently breaks down in the kitchen of his bar in the final scene, it has a power most of the finale is lacking.
Finally, the music is superb. Stanley Myers' beautiful composition Cavatina is played evocatively by guitarist John Williams and used throughout the film to great effect.
Despite these good points, in the end, The Deer Hunter is hopelessly conflicted with how it wants to tell its story. It wants Robert Altman's stream of consciousness but also the formal drama of an old-school Hollywood war film. It wants gritty realism but infuses it with obvious metaphor and wooden exposition. Intentionally or not, it ends up as conflicted as the war itself. It's not a bad experience, though. I walked away from my fresh viewing with an appreciation for Cimino and Zsigmond's gift for framing and enjoyed that fact that movie did not attempt to answer any questions the world might have about Vietnam but asked a few for the characters, and made sure they were questions they couldn't answer. I'd have to say my experience was a good one but not as good as I'd hoped.
But that's my opinion of the film as it is, as a story separate from our actual experiences with Vietnam. The film's message, or construed one as it may be, was the focus of intense controversy at the time of its release, one that got to the heart of much of the debate about America's involvement in Vietnam. I made it a point, after deciding to watch the film again, to read not a word about the controversy until after I viewed it. I remembered some things, like Jane Fonda and husband Tom Hayden yelling, "The Deer Hunter is a lie!" at the Oscars, but not much else. When I finished processing the movie I started to read up on the criticisms, most of them having to do with the Vietnam sequences. As I said earlier, some seem valid, others less so.
The primary criticism was that the portrayal of the Viet Cong captors, as well as the Vietnamese roulette gamblers, was racist and one-sided. The secondary criticism, and one that you'll find repeated in one review after another, was that there was no documentation of Russian roulette ever being forced on POWs. The secondary criticism goes hand in hand with the first. That is, by inventing such a cruel device to portray the captors and free-market gamblers of Vietnam, they are caricatured as animals beyond redemption. The implication seems to be that there was plenty of horrific behavior on the part of the Viet Cong to show without having to make something up. One need but read up on the activities at the Hoa Lo Prison (The Hanoi Hilton) to know this to be true. So by devising the roulette game, the film was able to implicate both the North and the South Vietnamese in the cruelty, since both seem intoxicated by it.

In his defense of this criticism, on the commentary soundtrack of the DVD, Cimino states that the film is surrealistic and not intended to be "about Vietnam" any more than Apocalypse Now was or The Bridge on the River Kwai was about World War II. It is, he says, entirely fictional and the captors and citizen gamblers are but metaphors for a bigger picture (well, obviously - everything's a metaphor in the movie).
I buy into Cimino's view more. The film is, as stated several times so far up to and including the preceding sentence, clearly metaphorical. While it employs realism in its scenes it is not meant to be taken as a literal portrayal of events in Vietnam, at least not to my eyes. This is, you will recall, one of my problems with the film, the fact that it can't stick with the voyeuristic realism long enough to forget all the metaphor and allegory. The fact that this is a problem for me also means, by definition, that I don't believe Cimino is trying to bullshit his way out of this because it is all so clearly surrealistic. There are far too many contrived situations in this film (not least among them the fact that three friends from the same town all somehow end up in the same bamboo cage half a world away) to take is seriously as intentionally realistic and not metaphorically stylistic.
Of course, the criticism goes, one can be metaphorical and still include some decent Vietnamese characters. That's true as well but if they are not important to the story I'm not sure where to put them. In Brian De Palma's Casualties of War, the focus is on the crime committed by United States soldiers in Vietnam and the one soldier who stands up to them. It is necessary to the story to show the sole important Vietnamese character, that of the abducted raped captive, as humanistic and victimized. This does not mean De Palma was racist in his portrayal of American soldiers and glorifying in his portrayal of Vietnamese women as suffering angels. No, it meant he was showing the characters he needed to show to tell his story the way he needed to tell it.
Still, one does chafe at the gambling scenes in the village where Christopher Walken becomes a roulette star. The idea of people betting on other people like so many spins of a roulette wheel seems hard to take or, at least, hard to fathom that kind of inhuman cruelty for the sake of gambling. Not only that, but how soon is your business going to end? I mean, how many possible people can you drug up enough, and fast enough, to keep a lucrative suicide game going? Business-wise, it's idiotic and nonsensical.

So where does that leave us? Well, several decades removed from the original controversy, it's hard to see what all the fuss was about. Eight years later, Oliver Stone took metaphorical/allegorical Vietnam storytelling to ridiculous heights with his badly dated Platoon. With its simple-minded moralizing (Old America: Bad. New America: Good.) and laughably one-dimensional symbolic stand-ins for characters, it's hard to believe it didn't get raked over the coals far worse than The Deer Hunter ever was. But by 1986 America had already forgotten the Vietnamese anyway (they're not even a minor subplot in Platoon) and was focused on how hard it was for all of us so Platoon was aces in their book.
The Deer Hunter had to happen when it did. While there were other Vietnam movies that very year, and the year before, including The Boys in Company C, Go Tell the Spartans and Coming Home, America needed a mad, grand over-the-top opera like The Deer Hunter to get the conversation rolling. It may not be the best Vietnam movie out there (is there, in fact, a best one?) but its place as the one that really got Hollywood finally opening up to the idea of examining Vietnam, something The Green Berets failed to do nine years earlier, is an honored place and there are a lot worse movies that could hold it. That's pretty faint praise, admittedly, but it's sincere. And with all its faults, so is The Deer Hunter.

26 comments:
You should check out Robin Wood's essay on THE DEER HUNTER and HEAVEN'S GATE in his HOLLYWOOD FROM VIETNAM TO REAGAN.
I loved this film! It was so great, and the themes about the war and how everybody that has to do with it is affected, works so well. I wish so many people didn't criticize it like they always do, but hey, I guess not every film can be perfect. Good Review!
Marc, I haven't read that but would definitely like to. I'll probably just get the book from Amazon kindle. Thanks for the heads up.
Dan, it does have many great qualities to it and, in the end, I'd have to say those qualities outweigh the faults. Despite the conflicting styles, the natural Altmanesque style dominates and wins the day. I do wish the third act had been more solid.
Mike isn't given much time with anyone in the third act as his character is being pushed from one set of characters to the next to examine his reaction to them post-combat. First Linda, then the supermarket gang, then the friends hunting, then Steven at the hospital, then he's back with Linda, then off to Vietnam, then some quick detective work and he's with Nick, etc. It rushes through the third act after being so patient with the first two. The movie is 3 hours and 3 minutes but could have easily added another twenty to the third act without hurting the film. In fact, it's the rushed quality that does hurt it in that last part.
Thanks for this.
I notice that this is the first review I've read in all of the decades since I watched this movie that's made me interested to revisit it.
I suspect it's because our similar experiences with it back in the day as well as, interestingly, the fact that your criticisms match what I remember finding frustrating myself, so I'm able to believe I could come away with a similarly (overall) positive experience to the one you had in a way that dozens of glanced over effusively praising reviews make me roll my eyes and move on.
Oh.
That was me.
Sorry.
--
Neil
The Bleeding Tree
I notice that this is the first review I've read in all of the decades since I watched this movie that's made me interested to revisit it.
Thanks, Neil. I'm glad to hear you had a similar experience but not surprised as we seem to share a lot of the same likes and dislikes with movies. If I had to pinpoint the one thing that saved the film overall for me, despite the many faults, it would be the photography by Zsigmond. He constantly keeps the framing interesting to look at.
I'd like to hear what you think if you ever do get around to seeing it again.
Fantastic retrospective look back at this important film. Amazing to think that it was released when it was while the bulk of films about the Vietnam War came out in the 1980's. I actually really like the Altman-esque first third as allows us to get to know these characters and the lives they lead. It also shows us why, later on, they are so desperate to get back home - because of the friends and family - and maybe why Christopher Walken's character is not. Even in the first third of the film set in PA, he seems slightly estranged from everyone else. Anyways, that part of the film worked for me.
As for best Vietnam War film... one of my faves that deals with the effects of the war after the soldiers returned is Norman Jewison's IN COUNTRY which features a fantastic performance from, of all people, Bruce Willis, who really disappears into the role of an emotionally-scarred vet coming to terms with the war. It's quite a nice little film. Another one I enjoy is JACKNIFE with Robert De Niro and Ed Harris playing vets reuniting after years of being home from the war. Both are fascinating character-driven dramas, IMO.
Loved your review. It really makes me want to watch this film again. It has been too long.
I actually really like the Altman-esque first third as allows us to get to know these characters and the lives they lead.
It's the best part of the whole movie, I think.
You know, I saw both In Country and Jacknife years ago. I liked In Country a lot, as I recall, but Jacknife didn't work for me, most likely because I knew the play so well (I wrote about it here if you're curious). I suspect now that the play is receding in my memory the movie might work a lot better for me now.
I've always really loved this movie, it was an early "art" movie for me, but I haven't seen it in years, and don't know how I'd regard it now. It could be that the younger me was just so proud that a movie as long as THE DEER HUNTER managed to grip me so thoroughly.
But until I have reason to believe otherwise, I consider myself a fan. Nevertheless, your criticisms are valid. The big one for me -- and you don't really hammer on this as a criticism, but I gather you'd rather Cimino did things differently -- was the jumps in action. Suddenly they meet up in Vietnam, suddenly they're POWs, suddenly Mike finds Nick...as shorthand, it's pretty absurd. I don't need a lot of detail, but give me SOMETHING that will help me understand how these things came to pass.
The performances are superb, though. You focus on Savage, but I would focus on De Niro, whose impotent rage in the Russian roulette scene always really got me. My one criticism is that Cimino shouldn't have made Mike get up and start struggling with the guard, only to be slapped back into his chair. Just make him shake and scream instead, and you got it.
And finally, the music is outstanding, and I've never, ever bought into the criticism that the film somehow did something wrong by inventing the Russian roulette idea. It's a work of fiction, you idiots.
Bill, I think we're pretty much in sync. The jumps in action in the Vietnam sequences work against the earlier Pennsylvania scenes but maybe that's intentional. Maybe Cimino was trying to make the Vietnam scenes disjointed and confusing as they feel to the soldiers. It's possible.
And we agree on the roulette scenes. I am, as I said, on Cimino's side here. Reading criticisms that say there was no documented roulette games in POW camps is kind of ridiculous. I imagine all kinds of fiction movies have done hundreds of thousands of things never documented in real life.
De Niro and Savage and Walken are all terrific in the roulette scene, don't get me wrong. I just wanted to call out Savage's superb work as a man pushed beyond his mental capabilities to keep it together.
Finally, did you ever read some of Walken's comments on the scene? He talked about how the actors were really slapping them, even though it went against their Buddhist tenets, and how there was no need to act enraged, he and De Niro really were enraged. So De Niro jumping up was his choice, I think and Cimino let it stay.
I remember seeing this when it first came out with a couple of high school friends. It was pretty amazing that the same guys who laughed with me through Dawn of the Dead and the remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers left the theater in tears after seeing this. The combination of John Williams' guitar playing, Vilmos Zsigmond's cinematography and the wonderful ensemble cast made this a very emotionally devestating experience. I have only seen it a few times since and it still has its effects on me. Surprisingly, Cimino got the Oscar, since in retrospect direction and script were the weak points in this film (I agree with your assessment on the lack of narrative clarity and the sledgehammer metaphors, such as the loving cup which drips wine on the wedding dress after the MC says "you must drink it without spilling a drop" -- so heavy handed that the jock sitting behind me even got that one). And, with that Oscar in hand, Cimino went on to self destruction in Heaven's Gate.
One of my best friends lost his father in Vietnam (he was a chopper pilot who was shot down). He used to watch every Vietnam War film in an effort to connect witht he father he never really knew. But the Deer Hunter was so heavy that he only watched it once and told me he'd never watch it again, because it was too close, too personal. I guess that should be considered a compliment.
Fred, it is very personal which I like about it. I like that the majority of the film doesn't take place in Vietnam but rather in Clairton, as it should. That gives the viewer much more of a feel for the characters and their lives, as J.D. said, which makes the experience of Vietnam all the more effective.
I had an uncle who served three tours in Vietnam coming out alive but disturbed by the experience, though he never showed it. He never spoke of any Vietnam movies and I never asked him but he always reminded me of the De Niro character and I like to think this movie is the one that struck a chord with him.
Maybe Cimino was trying to make the Vietnam scenes disjointed and confusing as they feel to the soldiers. It's possible.
I have no doubt that something like that was on Cimino's mind, but it plain doesn't work. I remember when I first watched it, and the bit where it jumps from them free to them as POWs, I was sure I'd missed something. That there was something I'd been shown that, if I was older and knew more, would have made it perfectly clear to me. I did eventually settle on that vague shot of, I guess, advancing VCs, but I was never very confident about that.
Well, he starts by showing the village being bombed by American helicopters and then shows American troops land (that's where Walken and Savage come from). So, I just rewatched the scene and it's clear that all the troops are American. So the line of troops moving forward, if it isn't American, doesn't seem to be a threat either. I mean, it's only about ten guys, all of whom could be taken out by the American troops.
So yes, something is clearly missing. Something edited out I suppose.
The American people have been kept in the dark about the wars its corporate rulers have waged -- and they seem to like it that way. There's another film to be made about Vietnam and its affect on thsi country, and that would be a film about the anti-war movement. There are a few documentaries and certain scenes in Milos Forman's film of Hair but that's about all. The triumph of the American people in bringing this genocidal invasion of a foreign country that had neither the means nor the will to attack us is being written out of the national consciousness. And films like The Deer Hunter form a major part of that effort.
I saw it in previews early on and found it so repellent I didn't predict it would do much business or get much attention. But Allan Carr (Grease, Can't Stop the Music) took chrge of the film's publicity and his efforts were wildly successful.
Cimino followed this travesty with an even bigger one called Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate. It was a disaster of epic proportions. Two more expensive bombs followed, then a less expensive one. He hasn't made a film for years.
"The American people have been kept in the dark about the wars its corporate rulers have waged -- and they seem to like it that way. There's another film to be made about Vietnam and its affect on this country, and that would be a film about the anti-war movement. There are a few documentaries and certain scenes in Milos Forman's film of Hair but that's about all."
David, thanks for stopping by. As to the "kept in the dark" opener of your comment that can only be an individual's own fault as the information about the war, going back to the Pentagon Papers and beyond, is most certainly available for consumption. I understand the major news media operates in clips and human interest blather but if someone wants to find out the facts on anything, it's up to them. Unfortunately, most folks don't bother, which is their own damn fault, as you say.
The trouble with making a movie about the anti-war movement, to my mind, is that the best way to personalize what the anti-war movement was, in fact, against is to show the horrors of the war itself on the citizens of Vietnam. Vietnam has produced movies like this, starting with The Abandoned Field in 1979. Also, on this side, there was The Killing Fields as well as Casualties of War which both focused on the horrors committed on Vietnamese citizens.
Of course, American movies are going to concentrate on how it affected Americans dying over there and Vietnamese movies are going to portray the effects on Vietnamese. But the anti-war movement was in large part about protesting Americans dying in the war, which the American films have portrayed quite often. What I'm trying to say with all of this is that, in the end, it is precisely the type of Vietnam movies we see that best express the feelings of the anti-war movement.
The triumph of the American people in bringing this genocidal invasion of a foreign country that had neither the means nor the will to attack us is being written out of the national consciousness. And films like The Deer Hunter form a major part of that effort.
I assume you are referring to Cambodia (Operation Menu) and not Vietnam as our involvement in Vietnam was not an invasion proper, as in there is a country not embroiled in a civil war or any other war of any kind and suddenly, we invade it. This would be the case with Iraq but not Vietnam. Even Cambodia, which we initiated bombing on under Nixon, was not an invasion as we never actually unseated the government and stood in occupation of the country. As far as genocide is concerned, that term is often used when someone is referring to civilian casualties in a war, of which we inflicted our fair share. But true genocide is the systematic slaughter of a specific people based on their ethnic, religious or national identity. While casualties of war are often, by definition of there being nations involved, of the same national identity it is not genocide because it does not follow the definition of systemic extermination of a specific people but rather, the destruction of targeted villages and cities. For TRUE genocide, one must cede the floor to the Khmer Rouge.
COMMENT CONTINUED BELOW
I saw it in previews early on and found it so repellent I didn't predict it would do much business or get much attention. But Allan Carr (Grease, Can't Stop the Music) took chrge of the film's publicity and his efforts were wildly successful.
Here I would like to hear more from you because I suspect you are referring to the prisoner of war scenes, yes? Is this what you found repellent? If so, is it because there was no documentation of Russian roulette and you felt being non-historical was repellent? If that is the case, what of the statements I or Cimino have made to the fact that it is fiction? Do you think perhaps the film should have shown more American mistreatment of Vietnamese? If so, do you agree that a film is not obligated to show every side to every story in an effort to tell its own? What I mean is, the movie is clearly about how the residents of Clairton are affected by the war, particularly a set of friends. To this end it shows the horrors they endure. American soldiers did, in fact, suffer horrors. It’s well documented. Are they not allowed to show this? In other words, surely you didn’t find repellent showing people suffering as a result of these horrors. You didn’t leave the movie saying, “How dare they show that people were hurt and killed and emotionally scarred! How dare they!” Because, that’s what the movie’s about. So, again, I’m assuming you are referring to the Russian roulette scenes, both in the prison hut and the gambling hall. I’d love to hear that side argued as it’s an important part of the criticism against this film and I hope you’ll return to do so. Thanks.
The best film to date, IMO is Phillip Noyce's version of The Quiet American Graham Greene knew precisely what the CIA was up to in what was then "French Indo-China" and he wrote a great novel about it that Mankiewicz flubbed in hi sotherwise very lovely 1957 adaptation.
Mankiewicz cast Audie Murphy. A good idea. But he insisted on making his "quite American" a naive dupe. Noyce goes back to Greene -- with e vengeance. The most unforgettable image of this film is Brendah Fraser (in his ONLY performance to date) testily wiping th blood off of his trouser cuff. The blood of a Vietnamese civilian killed in an explosion that Fraser's "Quiet American" had executed the better to incite war against the Communistrs, and thus set the stage for U.S. "entry" into a "conflict" of its own devise.
There was only one Vietnam until the U.S. divided it in two an INVADED the country.
(See alos Fuller's lively prequel to the U.S. invasion, China Gate)
Yes the United Staes is "exceptional."
We are exceptionally Evil.
David, I still haven't seen the newer version of The Quiet American but look forward to it. But you didn't answer any of my questions. Which is fine, I mean, I asked a lot of them and I understand if you don't want to. No skin off my nose.
And then you ended with this:
There was only one Vietnam until the U.S. divided it in two an INVADED the country.
(See alos Fuller's lively prequel to the U.S. invasion, China Gate)
Yes the United Staes is "exceptional."
We are exceptionally Evil.
The country was partitioned in 1954 by the Geneva Conference which was made up of the Soviet Union, the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and the People's Republic of China. Saying "the U.S. divided it into two" isn't entirely accurate.
Also, the partition was done on the agreement that Vietnam would hold elections in 1956 to unify the country under non-Colonial, sovereignty. The North refused to hold the elections they promised to unify the country and began killing opposition politicians. This is available from wikipedia, to the government archives of Vietnam itself. It's not exactly a secret. So to say we divided it and then invaded it is ignoring a lot of easily verifiable facts of history, readily at hand.
But why are we even talking about this? I wanted to know what you found reprehensible in THE DEER HUNTER, the torture scenes, I suspect and wanted to get a good analysis from you about that. Instead I get that weird "exceptionally evil" coda. I never even mentioned American exceptionalism anywhere in my comment. Besides, the actions of any government do not make a country evil. Nazis were evil, not Germany. The Khmer Rouge was evil, not Vietnam. Horrible people in power do horrible things. But every country, from Russia to Germany to America to Egypt to Iran and on and on, has done good and great things, too. To use any one policy or governmental period as reason to label a country "evil" is a bit too sweeping.
The Deer Hunter is a hysterical fantasy of American "virtue" undone by The Yellow Peril.
It's "Terry and The Pirates" without the Dragon Lady.
Greg -
Wow! I read your post with great interest and enjoyment yesterday, but was distracted by work, etc. and never got a chance to post a comment. Guess I missed quite a dust up here!
Anyway, I found your post extremely interesting depsite the fact that I have never managed to make it all the way through "The Deer Hunter" (believe it or not!) Oh sure, I'm plenty familiar with the iconic scenes - the Russian Roulette game in the POW camp, the guys singing along with Franki Vallie around the pool table - but I've found getting through the entire film to be a hard slog and never made it.
But I really appreciate your thoughtful analysis and it actually makes me want to give "The Deer Hunter" another shot.
For what it's worth, I oould never make it through "Heaven's Gate" either, although the opening Harvard graduation sequence gives me enormous guilty pleasure. It's so excessive and over-the-top, but there's something kind of exurberant and grand about its excessiveness. After that, however, I rapidly lose interest.
Pat, they can both be tough movies to get through because Cimino doesn't exactly whisk things along and doesn't have the metrics of deliberate pacing down as perfectly as a Kubrick does. But there is still plenty to admire, above all the cinematography. Regardless of what you think of the movie, it is beautifully shot from start to last.
Also, I'm not a big fan of the breakneck editing of many of today's films which end up making the film disjointed and feeling twice as long. When I go back to some of the longer movies from the seventies, they seem shorter in retrospect because the editing is better. This doesn't apply to all movies from the period as others I've re-watched recently have not impressed at all. But this one seemed better than I remembered it.
I never saw "Deer Hunter" on the big screen - or any screen bigger than about 27 inches, so that's probably why I haven't properly appreciated the camerawork. Now that I have a 47" HD tv, it may be a perfect time to check it out on DVD.
Also, I'm not a big fan of the breakneck editing of many of today's films which end up making the film disjointed and feeling twice as long.
I'm with you on that, Greg.
47 inch HD tv? Sounds awesome! Wish I had one.
I think the ending is supposed to be unmoving; what went before points out how hollow the patriotic song is, how empty are its promises, how foolish those are who fight under its banner. It's just a continuation of all that came before, the russian roulette, etc.
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