Film writers, critics and bloggers, like myself, spend a lot of time thinking about how a review or essay they've written will be received. I know I've edited and re-edited and re-re-edited a review so as not to come off as too belligerent or condescending, especially when I am aware that my opinion of a given movie runs counter to the general consensus. In those cases I am extra careful to phrase my opinions carefully and do my best to support my opinions with evidence, solid and verifiable, that the reader can examine for him or herself. It can be draining and it is often times much easier to just take an older film, one that everyone likes and give it an excellent write-up. No concerns, no controversy, no disagreements.
But sometimes, the eggshells get harder and harder to walk on and you just want to scream, "Screw it! Here's what I think and I have nothing to back it up. Nothing! But guess what? I'm still going to say it!"
So allow me to present the Cinema Styles Baseless Opinion Dirty Dozen! If you disagree with anything written below, who cares? Really, who cares?! It's baseless! I know that, you know that. Baseless opinion can be a good thing as long as we all acknowledge it is just that, baseless, and don't try and pretend it means anything or has any evidential or factual validity, which is why Jeffrey Wells would never qualify for this little exercise, ever. Let us begin.
1. I think Vivien Leigh did a better job as Blanche DuBois in A Streetcar Named Desire than Jessica Tandy and I've never even seen Jessica Tandy in the role! That's insane! How can I make that judgment? Easy, Leigh had difficult depression issues she had to deal with in real life that I can almost see her bring that to the role when I watch her in the film version. That final scene is heartbreaking the way Leigh plays it and I just can't see Tandy making me feel the same thing. And I can't back that up in any possible way! Fun times! Get ready for more!
2. Hey, speaking of stage to screen roles, know what? I'm glad Audrey Hepburn got cast as Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady. Ha, ha, that's right, glad! I like her a lot more than Julie Andrews so who cares if they had to dub her singing voice. Go Audrey!
3. Comedy is all relative. What's funny to one person isn't funny to another so who am I to tell you who and what's funny, right? Wrong! Here's the list - memorize it! Groucho Marx, funny. Everybody else, less funny. Sasha Baron Cohen, almost supernaturally unfunny.
4. The best supporting performance in The Godfather, Part II wasn't Robert DeNiro, it was John Cazale, and he wasn't even nominated!
5. I have never really liked Marilyn Monroe in anything. Really. And I find her too caricatured to be sexy, because she is!
6. A while ago me and one other person here expressed the belief that Peter Cushing was the best Sherlock Holmes, better than Basil Rathbone, better than Jeremy Brett, better than all of them. Know what? He is!
7. William Holden - tumbler in one hand, cigarette in the other, Stefani Powers on the couch and a cynical observation rolling off the lips - coolest man ever.
8. Outland is better than High Noon. Seriously, that's baseless and everything, but it's true.
9. Timothy Dalton was the best Bond, Casino Royale doesn't even approach being the best Bond movie ever and all four of the Pierce Brosnan Bonds should be un-movied from existence. They. Never. Happened. Just keep repeating that until it's true.
10. Late Kurosawa is much better than early Kurosawa but early Kurosawa is all anyone ever ranks. This should be corrected. Now!
11. Speaking of which, The Magnificent Seven is better than The Seven Samurai. OOOOOOOH!!!! OH! NO! HE! DIDN'T!!! Oh yes I did.
12. Finally, know what the best selectors of the best movies each year are? The Oscars? The Golden Globes? The National Society of Film Critics? The New York Film Critics? Nope! The Edgar Allen Poe Awards, and they only select in one genre! Seriously, it's not perfect, and there are plenty of stinkers but on the whole I'd rather watch their winners anytime. For your list viewing pleasure, go here.
And that, as they say, is that. We apologize for this interruption in the normal running of Cinema Styles. Back to carefully considered opinions. Sigh.
105 comments:
1. I think Vivien Leigh did a better job as Blanche DuBois in A Streetcar Named Desire than Jessica Tandy and I've never even seen Jessica Tandy in the role! That's insane!... I just can't see Tandy making me feel the same thing. And I can't back that up in any possible way! Fun times! Get ready for more!
Bwah-ha-ha-ha! What a great idea for a post. I'm in agreement with you on this one.
4. No, it was Robert Duvall. But Cazale comes close.
6. Glad I have Cushing's Holmes on the DVR.
8. True: People explode in space suits; Sean Connery and Peter Boyle.
Sure beats Grace Kelly saving that wussy, Gary Cooper.
9. Dalton is the one who most resembles the Fleming Bond. But Craig comes close. And I love CASINO ROYALE, but it doesn't beat ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, GOLDFINGER, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, or FOR YOUR EYES ONLY (in that order).
...all four of the Pierce Brosnan Bonds should be un-movied from existence.
Done.
11. True. Much tighter film.
Why you troublemakin' razzafrazzin' scallywag! You're gonna start some trouble in River City!
Tony, you accidentally reversed this: "No, it was Robert Duvall. But Cazale comes close." Here, I'll fix it for you - "4. It was John Cazale. But Robert Duvall comes close." There. Be more careful typing.
I definitely like Daniel Craig as Bond quite a lot, I just think Dalton was the best and I wish he had been more successful with the public. I'd put Casino Royale in the top ten but I thought all the talk about it being the best Bond ever was a little bit of a rush to judgment.
People explode in space suits; Sean Connery and Peter Boyle
I really couldn't have said that better myself.
Ryan, don't worry, Buddy Hackett's got my back.
For what it's worth, Greg, I think Dalton was excellent in the role and could have been a great Bond with good material, he just never really got a good movie, IMO. The Living Daylights was blatantly written for Brosnan and wasn't suited to his sensibilities - he's almost painfully awkward trying to deliver lame Roger Moore-esque one liners that were obviously written with Brosnan in mind. And I don't think it's really a good movie, either. And License to Kill lays on the renegade Bond stuff a little too thick, but I think Dalton is great in it, that may be the best performance anyone ever gave as James Bond. But I'm not big on either of his movies.
I agree with Ryan on all counts.
And what about OHMSS? Do you guys like that one? I'm convinced that could have been the best Bond movie ever had they convinced Connery to play in that one.
Ryan, I agree, Dalton's movies weren't very good unfortunately but watching the Pierce Brosnan movies I wonder who exactly ever wanted Brosnan to play Bond and why??? Once they got Dalton they should have started writing the movies for the Connery-type again and it would've worked much better.
Tony, I love On Her Majesty's Secret Service, it's one of the best. I never liked Lazenby much in it and felt they didn't give enough screen time to Bond's marriage before Tracy's murder but otherwise, yes, it's fantastic.
Why's everyone hatin' on High Noon, all of a sudden. I'm going to take my blocks and go home...
I have liked Marilyn Monroe in a number of films (though not all, for sure). You might try Don't Bother to Knock for something different from her that you might like. It's a disturbing little movie.
And not to get too technical on you, but these are not current movies or stars you're talking about, so basically, you're STILL a wuss.
Why's everyone hatin' on High Noon, all of a sudden. I'm going to take my blocks and go home...
I'm just saying Outland's better... which it is.
And not to get too technical on you, but these are not current movies or stars you're talking about, so basically, you're STILL a wuss.
Marilyn, boopie, I got no problem going against the grain on the new stuff, like UP. This about taking on the established stuff. Established means older. Come on Marilyn, keep up.
With regard to #1, Marlon Brando said pretty much the same thing in his autobiography. So maybe not such a controversial notion after all.
As for the rest, well, a pretty darned entertaining list of bold assertions even if I don't agree with them all (which is the point, right?) Kind of makes me want to put up a smiliar post.
Kind of makes me want to put up a smiliar post.
Oooh, Pat, please do. It could be a meme. The Cinema Styles Jeffrey Wells Tribute Baseless Opinion Meme.
I didn't know Brando had said that about Leigh. That makes me feel much better because I believe it even though I can never compare the two.
Tony, that's exactly my feeling about OHMSS - it would be the best if it were Connery in the role, or a good actor, even. Lazenby is incredibly flat.
And I'm down for a meme, if you decree it so, Greg.
With your 007 proclamations, I assume you're not counting any of the Roger Moore movies.
Because. They. And. He. Sucked.
The worst, bar none. A pouf whose face resembled an overcooked hot dog; whose condescending, Look-At-Me-I'm-Really-Not-A-Homo demeanor was his one true "performance"; his inability to wear a suit convincingly -- he always looked like a kid struggling to get through mass on Easter Sunday; his annoying method of faking a cough in his cupped hand to announce his arrival; his frikkin' wig in A View to a Kill -- did Tanya Roberts puke every time his sleazy, withering hands touched her?
One point beyond debate: Live and Let Die is the bottom of the barrel.
Moore's Bond oeuvre is summed up most accurately by that fascinating and cherished Ian Fleming character, Sheriff J.W. Pepper.
CASINO ROYALE is the best Bond movie since the last great Connery film, whichever that was. Or maybe since ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE.
I haven't seen either Dalton movie in a very long time, so maybe I should check them out again, but I still doubt that I will agree.
I only saw one Brosnan Bond film and didn't much like it, but I like him. He could have been a great Bond in something like, say, CASINO ROYALE.
I don't think I've seen Cushing as Holmes, actually. But there's no way he's better than Brett, and I love Cushing with every fiber of my being. Brett brought such eccentricity, color, life, and insufferableness to the role. He WAS Holmes. As Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry are to Jeeves and Wooster, Brett is to Holmes.
That Edgar list is interesting. There are a couple of eyebrow-raisers in there (SYRIANA??), but overall it's a nice list.
Flickhead, actually, I might put Moonraker at the bottom of the barrel. I was, in fact, toying with the idea of saying that all the Moore and Brosnan Bonds should be un-movied but I still like The Spy Who Loved Me. But on the big point I can't disagree with you. Moore was far too jokey as Bond and played him FAR beyond the age he should have retired.
But yes, even if I would rank Moonraker at the bottom, Live and Let Die SUCKS!
My general rule of thumb, Brett was to Holmes what Dalton was to Bond -- the closest to the author's version.
Pierce Brosnan wasn't terrible. Goldeneye is certainly an improvement over the Moore films.
I may no longer be objective about Casino Royale because I've seen it (and Quantum of Solace) six or seven times.
Meanwhile, MOONRAKER is considered by some to be the best, or at least among the best, of Fleming's novels. But I lost my copy and haven't replaced it yet, so I have no way of knowing.
Moonraker is saved by John Barry. It's one of his best scores. And if you remove Jaws, there could be a decent movie there.
Spy Who Loved Me is way too long. Again, remove Jaws and you might have something there.
Remove J.W. Pepper from Live and Let Die and Man With the Golden Gun, and... well, with Man With the Goden Gun you might have something. Live and Let Die falls apart into nothingness in half an hour.
I've never seen LIVE AND LET DIE all the way through, but the bits I've seen are close to unbearable. As is the entirety of MOONRAKER. Maybe the score's good, I might agree with you, Flickhead, but it's been too long for me to remember it that well.
Bill, I'd put the first four in the top ten, and then... oh hell, if I actually rank these Casino Royale might make my top five. Okay, let me revise my baseless opinion to state that it is not the best! There, that's better.
As for Cushing, remember, this is baseless opinion and in Cushing's case I have only ONE movie to go on so obviously Brett had much more opportunity to create something special. What I'm saying, or feeling without any evidence whatsoever, is that if, in the fifties and sixties, someone had fashioned a Sherlock Holmes BBC series around Cushing, he would have ruled supreme, based only on a hunch I have watching the one single Holmes movie he did, Hammer's Hound of the Baskervilles.
Thanks for mentioning the Edgars too, they've got some great choices. Syriana is a little odd I guess, as a mystery, but I still liked it. And that fingernail scene. Holy Christ almighty did that have me squirming!
Well, I hated SYRIANA, but I guess something like STAKEOUT is more of an eyebrow-raiser, but you get to see Madeline Stowe's butt in that one, so I don't have the heart to complain too much.
But the 40s through the 80s picks are pretty close to rock solid. There are a few boring choices in there, but I love seeing CUTTER'S WAY and THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY in their 80s picks.
I was also pleased to see MICHAEL CLAYTON get the nod.
Flickhead, Live and Let Die is played like a straight up cops and robbers film, not a Bond movie. It's an incredibly bad start to the Moore franchise.
I'm going to actually rent Moonraker and watch it again, just to see if it's as bad as I remember it.
And what about A View to a Kill? I hate that movie! Saw it in the theater and immediately wanted my money back.
I respect FOR YOUR EYES ONLY for stripping away Bond's gadgetry to some degree, especially at a moment in time when the gadgetry was threatening to overshadow the character as the reason mass audiences flocked to see the Moore films.
Plus, Carole Bouquet!
I am absolutely with you on number 2!
I love it when Greg goes on a bender! Keep pourin'!
I don't like Cushing's Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles and I love Live and Let Die, although I'm not prepared to say it's any damn good.
Bill, I'd put the first four in the top ten, and then... oh hell, if I actually rank these Casino Royale might make my top five. Okay, let me revise my baseless opinion to state that it is not the best! There, that's better.
Which means your baseless opinion is, in all actuality, baseless.
This is bordering on physics.
Since we're all coming out of the closet, is it safe to admit I think Robert Altman's movies are mostly terrible (except for Countdown) and I find them generally uninvolving, sexist and boring?
I'm sure my stupidity and lack of hipness plays a part in this. Which also disqualifies me from joining any further debate on Mr. Altman.
Bill, their Hitchcock picks in the fifties and sixties (Rear Window, North by Northwest, Psycho) put the Academy to shame... again. All of those could and should have won Best Picture with the Oscars too.
Why did you hate Syriana? It seemed like a fairly good thriller to me. Generic locale, settings and characters. Not bad for a spy movie I thought.
Also, regarding Brett, if memory serves he was that good right out of the gate. He didn't need to build to anything, over a period of several episodes/years. He was always perfect. If anything, his energy didn't start to lag until towards the end, after he got sick and the scripts got a little bloated (which in itself is baseless, because I'm only going by the adaptation of THE SUSSEX VAMPIRE, which I remember as being pretty terrible, but I don't remember the other latter day episodes being that bad. Brett did show his illness towards the end, though).
Tony, I saw For Your Eyes Only when it came out and didn't want my money back. That's another Moore movie I like.
Greg, I don't think I should get too deeply into my SYRIANA problems here. Suffice it to say, I found the ending to be offensive, and I thought the much celebrated "corruption" speech was a joke, shoe-horned in with no connective tissue on either side of it. It's like Gaghan had cut it, but then thought, "Woops, there goes my Oscar nomination!" and crammed it back in.
The performances were good, though.
Now I have to think of something on the level of Flickhead's Altman confession (which I don't agree with). Well, I hate THE CONFORMIST, but I'm already on record with that one.
In A View to a Kill, there's a shot of Tanya in a nightie exposing her incredibly beautiful legs.
It, too, has a good John Barry score. You can hear part of it in the background at my website.
Which makes it superior to Live and Let Die.
Merriam, I'm glad someone agrees because, seriously, Eliza, to me, has to get under Higgins skin in a way that he can't stop thinking about her and, my apologies to Ms. Andrews, but I can't see Julie doing that for anybody. But the beautiful Audrey Hepburn? Hell yes!
Greg, there is actually a DVD of containing the five surviving episodes of Cushing's BBC HOLMES series. I don't know how good they are, but it may be worth checking out.
Not to get off-topic, but as long as we're shooting the shit... anyone have anything to say about Peter Graves death?
Arbogast, I'm always drinking, it's just that this morning I forgot to cut it with a chaser.
Cushing is so good as Holmes in my frank and baseless opinion, how can you not like him. He's got the character down pat I thought.
Bill,I expect fewer people to agree with my feelings toward Altman than those who agree with Greg's preference for Magnificent Seven (~snore~) over Seven Samurai.
For what it's worth, I've never made it through The Conformist without nodding off.
Bill, you hate THE CONFORMIST? My favorite film ever? Please explain.
Since we're all coming out of the closet, is it safe to admit I think Robert Altman's movies are mostly terrible (except for Countdown) and I find them generally uninvolving, sexist and boring?
I like enough Altman that I can't agree but also think he has more bad movies than good movies which doesn't in my opinion make his good movies any less, just that he also made a lot of bad movies too. So I can kind of see where you're coming from without fully agreeing.
The one shining moment of Graves' career, for me, is in Airplane! when he asks little Bobby if he's into gladiator movies.
Suffice it to say, I found the ending to be offensive, and I thought the much celebrated "corruption" speech was a joke, shoe-horned in with no connective tissue on either side of it.
Ha, isn't that funny, I don't even remember the "corruption" speech. What the hell is the "corruption" speech? I remember assassination and torture and secrets and shit. I think I saw it as a spy movie and you saw it as a political movie because I don't remember anything but the thriller stuff.
Tony, I thought THE CONFORMIST was, as Flickhead implies, tedious, and so soaked in pretentious symbolism that I just wanted to flee. I've used this joke a number of times (and never, to my knowledge, gotten a laugh from it), but Bertolucci should have just called the target of the assasination "Professor Italy" and been done with it.
The one shining moment of Graves' career, for me, is in Airplane! when he asks little Bobby if he's into gladiator movies.
The cockpit jokes in that movie are the best thing going. "Have you ever been to a Turkish bath?"
What the hell is the "corruption" speech?
I don't know if this is the whole thing, since I can't really play it at work, but...
The Magnificent Seven (snore)
Bite your tongue! How can you nod off anyway with that music acting as an orchestral alarm clock? Magnificent Seven FOREVER!!!
Bill, I guess that's it but even watching it again fresh it didn't make an impact outside of sounding like a Wall Street "Greed is good" rip-off. All I remember is George Clooney gets his fingernails ripped out and then the guy from Deep Space Nine gets blown up but good at the end. That's what I remember.
George Clooney was in DEEP SPACE NINE?
Magnificent Seven is better than Seven Samurai and what's wrong with that? It's not like Kurosawa is untouchable. Seven Samurai is a great movie, I just think the western remake is even better.
I never said Kurosawa was untouchable -- I wasn't crazy about KAGEMUSHA, for example -- but I do think that SEVEN SAMURAI is about as close to untouchable as you can get.
George Clooney was in DEEP SPACE NINE?
Yes, he played Doctor Doug Ross Bashir.
As long as were speaking our minds about Kurosawa, I've always felt the last thirty minutes of Ikiru states, restates, re-restates and then re-re-restates the same ideas over and over and over again and again and again and again. Almost like he thinks the audience is made up of three year olds who really need the point HAMMERED HOME! Otherwise, there's much to admire there, but that wake scene goes to great lengths to explain everything the viewer has already understood.
The wake scene is a bit much, I agree. The scene in the park, with the snow and the swing, should have been longer, and should have probably been the end, or closer to the end than it is. What more do you really need after that?
The scene in the park, with the snow and the swing, should have been longer, and should have probably been the end, or closer to the end than it is. What more do you really need after that?
Well said, I completely agree. That scene is beautiful.
"Film writers...spend a lot of time thinking about how a review or essay they've written will be received. I know I've edited and re-edited and re-re-edited a review so as not to come off as too belligerent or condescending..."
Kinda reminds me of my present quandry. Gerald Peary sent a review screener of his documentary, For the Love of Movies: The Story of American Film Criticism. I spent nearly a month composing a colossal critique. After all, I'd been freshly inspired by the prose of Kael, Sarris, and the other giants. ("This will get me noticed!" I imagined on those wildly delusional nights I'd be typing away for hours on end.) After a month of honing and shaping and cultivating and making sure every word was perfect, I posted it.
For six hours.
Then I re-read it (for the billionth time) and knew the inevitable: it was sloppy and incoherent. So I pulled it and have been attempting a rewrite, which is really messing me up. Tons of self doubt = Writer's Block. I should be writing it now, but I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
There should be a blogging editor somewhere, to help the writer assemble their thoughts coherently.
After a month of honing and shaping and cultivating and making sure every word was perfect, I posted it.
For six hours.
You do that a lot! I use my blogroll on The Invisible Edge for my blog updates and I often see a Flickhead update listed around, say, 8 hours ago only to click on it and find out it's not there.
Or your comments here that stay up for a few minutes or an hour and then come down. Fortunately I have e-mail notification set-up so I get to read them anyway.
I know how you feel though. My wife is really the only person that I let my true, 100 percent honest feelings about movies come out with. It's not that I'm being dishonest online, just that in a public forum like Cinema Styles I tend to hold back from the more poisonous venom because I'd rather build bridges than burn them. But sometimes I'm sorely tempted to lash out at some idea or exalted movie but usually pull myself back in and get my points across in a more civilized manner. But it can be tough, especially when you're getting a lot of resisitance from people less inclined than yourself to hold back.
Fun post.
I haven't read all the comments, but two things ...
1) It never struck me that Brosnan was an especially horrible Bond. The movies just sucked. Then again, I guess loving Bond is about 90 percent of 90 percent of Bond movies.
2) Tony: Beware starting any sentence "Sure beats Grace Kelly..." It's usually wrong. :)
Jason, for me, Bond has to be suave, yes, but tough first. Connery, Dalton and now Craig fit that bill. They can be refined but mainly, when they get pissed, you believe they can kick some serious ass. I never got that feeling from Lazenby, Moore or Brosnan. Moore and Brosnan were also too jokey.
And I love your advice to Tony.
Greg, I don't know why you should feel the need to hold back, although I do sort of understand it. I've been second-guessing myself regarding my review of HORNS by Joe Hill, because it's so relentlessly negative, but frankly that pick just pissed me off. If it had just been bad, or incompetent, I probably wouldn't have even reviewed it, but it really got my ire up, and Hill -- who is not untalented -- gets such a pass by horror fans, other horror writers, and even more mainstream critics. They just roll over for the guy, so I wanted to get down what I thought the book really was. I don't see why you shouldn't do the same.
"that pick" should read "that book". I had "book" and "pissed" jumbled up in my head. Which means I probably should have written "that pick boosed me off", but I didn't.
Jason, for me, Bond has to be suave, yes, but tough first.
I totally get that, and that leads me here: I guess I've never been sure which of those things Bond is supposed to be first -- suave or tough. I agree with you that Brosnan's Bond wasn't particularly tough, especially compared to Craig's.
Then again, Craig's is so tough that he doesn't seem very Bondy to me; he's almost more of a Bond villain than Bond at times. I always thought Bond was supposed to be able to hold his own in a fight but also be sly enough to avoid any serious physical altercation. But I am by no means an expert on the series.
Bill, I'm totally honest here it's just that I save my unbridled rants for home, usually. People misread A LOT on the internet and even toning something down I feel the need to apologize sometimes.
For instance, if I had written in a post what I wrote here about Ikiru I could see people misreading that and assuming I hate Ikiru, which I don't. But that's happened to me before. People get offended by your take on one aspect of the movie and then apply that take to the whole movie even though that isn't what you were saying at all. And they do this even when you've toned it down.
In my review of Avatar I felt I summed up what I felt about the movie pretty accurately (kind of indifferent, liked a lot of the action) but at home I pretty much make fun of it whenever it comes up because the stuff I didn't like is so much better fodder than the stuff I liked so I don't hold back. I usually refer to it as "The Big Blue Cartoon Movie" and my wife and I will say things like "I see you" and just laugh. And the James Cameron jokes, whew, they're pretty cutting. So you see, if I put all that ridicule and scorn into the review it would seem like I hated the movie, and I didn't, I really didn't. But I didn't like it too much either.
You know, I don't know if I just made any sense at all but I won't delete this.
By the way, Bill, I found your review very entertaining. I don't comment on the book posts a lot of the time just because I don't read the books and know I won't and so I don't know what to say, but it was a very good read.
Craig's is so tough that he doesn't seem very Bondy to me; he's almost more of a Bond villain than Bond at times.
Jason, that's a really good point. That's why I'd put Dalton and Connery ahead of him. Craig, at this point, seems too unrefined, more like mumbling, tough guy anti-hero than the Bond of the Ian Fleming novels (of which I've read only two, I admit).
By the way, in the Moonraker novel, the first one I read, Bond puts pepper in his vodka and explains he got used to doing that in Russia because the pepper would attach itself to the oils and contaminents in the cheap black market vodka and force them to the bottom. Then he got used to the taste and kept doing it. So when, years later, Absolut introduced Pepper Vodka I wondered if in fact they knew the origins of why people put pepper in the vodka in the first place.
James Bond novels - They're fun and educational.
@Jason,
I get what you're saying about my Grace Kelly comment, but taken in context I'm sure many would agree with my statement. Don't you?
Re: Bond,
In CASINO ROYALE (the only Bond book I've read which also happens to be the first), Fleming goes out of his way to make Bond a non-glamorous, rather rough antihero who, it's implied, is a killer first and a man-of-the-world second. That's what I like about Connery, Craig and Dalton's take on the character.
But if movies hone such characters into larger than life archetypes, then I really like Connery and Craig's performances even more than Dalton's because they really get the idea across that he is a "thug in a tux" (as in, you can dress him up, educate him, but he's still just a cold-hearted killer).
Greg - I get what you're saying. I guess it wouldn't do to just be outright mocking in your reviews, but a little of it, when the person really has it coming, would not be looked down on, I don't think.
And thanks for the compliment about the HORNS post. Rereading it, I can't honestly say that it misrepresents my feelings toward the book.
What Tony says about the novel CASINO ROYALE is one of the reasons I liked Craig so much. If you're read that novel, you know the last line. It seems to me that the film softened Bond a little bit, made him less coarse, because although that last line IS in the film, it's no longer the LAST line, sapping it of some of its nasty power. But I don't mind trading that for the unbelievably awesome last scene of the film, and the introduction of the Bond theme. Just perfect.
Another thing I liked about Craig's unrefined Bond is how he goes about partaking in the refined things in life. There's that bit after he's lost big at the baccarat table, and he's in the hotel restaurant eating caviar. But he's just sort of munching on it, like you or I would eat a burger and fries. It's a terrific character moment.
Tony, I should read Casino Royale to get a fuller idea of how Bond is originally presented in the Fleming novels, while Moonraker and Live and Let Die (the other one I read) came later.
I like your take on the Bond persona but I got that from Dalton too, or perhaps I should say I would have gotten that more if the movies had been written a lot better for him.
One thing I like about the two novels I read that I saw in the movie Casino Royale more than any other movie was the idea of Bond being physically brutalized instead of always casually coming out on top. In the Live and Let Die novel Bond has three or four of his fingers broken when he is being questioned in Harlem before passing out from the pain but in the movie he manages to elude having even one of his fingers injured before he gets out of it (can't remember how though, it's been too long).
Bill, I did really, really love the way they ended Casino Royale and if anything, that ending might be what has people saying it's the best. By the way, you'll noticed I have changed the post to "it's not the best Bond ever" instead of the "top five" statement because I actually would rank it in the top five. I think I was thinking there were a lot of other great Bond movies but you know what? While there are plenty of entertaining ones, there aren't a lot of great ones.
Greg, you're right about Dalton in the sense that he was doing the best he could with material that was likely still being written with the Moore persona in mind.
Also, good point about the injuries he often sustains in the books. If I remember correctly, he already has a prominent scar on his face when he is introduced in CASINO ROYALE. And though the torture scene is much more realistic in the film, Fleming has Bond's genitals subjected to electrocution in the novel's version. Ouch.
Ironically, I think CASINO ROYALE, the film, was a response to the brutality exhibited first in the BOURNE movies and subsequently on 24, movies revolving around spies that in their own way were influenced by Fleming's character as presented in the novels.
Greg, yes, the last scene is probably what has most energized fans like myself, to the point where we consider it among the best of the series. But the whole thing is pretty damn good. On the brutality point, another favorite moment for me is when Craig as Bond is in his room, after the fight in the stairwell, drinking whiskey, washing the blood off his face, and just looking exhausted and beat to shit.
"I tend to hold back from the more poisonous venom because I'd rather build bridges than burn them."
If you ever want to learn how to burn bridges while you're still on them, drop me a line. I'm an expert.
Ironically, I think CASINO ROYALE, the film, was a response to the brutality exhibited first in the BOURNE movies and subsequently on 24, movies revolving around spies that in their own way were influenced by Fleming's character as presented in the novels.
It's like the circle of life, Bond-style.
Bill (and Tony) - Or the fact that could easily have died in the car or during the torture had he not been helped. And the very beginning, with his first kill ever, that was great too.
The worst part of the movie for me is the early foot-chase scene between he and the smuggler that one, goes on too long and two, contains Jackie Chan style acrobatics that I don't see coming from either person in their line of work. A martial arts expert or gymnast, yes, but those two, no. Everything else in the movie has a grounded feel but that part seems a bit ridiculous.
Flickhead - If you're burning bridges with your reviews it's simply because people don't read carefully enough (see my above comment to Bill), not because you're doing anything wrong.
Tony: I haven't seen Outland, so I couldn't say. I was just making a joke that nothing beats Grace Kelly.
BTW ... 70-plus comments. Has Cinema Styles ever passed the 100 comment mark without the participation of Fox?
Jason, that's a good question. I don't know. I know before Facebook the comments would exceed 100 every now and then but you're right, Fox was usually there making one offensive comment after another. I miss that guy. I guess he's done with blogging.
Oh, 70 comments used to be your average. Yes, Fox was around then, but it wasn't just him. The point is, I've enjoyed this. It was a throwback to the grand ol' days.
Plus, the title of the post sums up all of this perfectly.
Great idea for a post, Greg.
Still, you're so wrong about some of this stuff. The fact that Marilyn Monroe was a caricature is what made her great; the fact that she was often a self-aware caricature was just icing on the (cheese)cake. I love how knowing she is in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, like her offhand admission that she can be smart when she needs to be, and that she's smart enough to realize how little guys appreciate intelligence in a woman like her. At her best, she's practically a parody of the kind of sex symbol she herself represents.
Speaking of which, my own utterly baseless admission is that I've always kind of enjoyed at least the first 2 Brosnan Bond movies, for similar reasons: they're parodies of Bond, presenting a Bond reduced to quips and outrageous plot devices (Bond riding in a tank, anyone?). I'd never say they're good movies by any means, but they're entertaining. And the Goldeneye adaptation for Nintendo 64 was a fantastic video game that I still occasionally play to this day. So there.
Groucho Marx is funny? Way to go out on a limb there, Greg.
Even given my love for its supposed opposite Rio Bravo, I think High Noon is a great movie. I know that's supposed to be one of those Beatles vs. Stones line-in-the-sand questions, but I like both extremes in this case (though not equally, admittedly). I'm not a big fan of those either/or ultimatums anyway.
Bill, it has been kind of a throwback post hasn't it? I was thinking that too today, and enjoying it as well.
Flickhead, "Unsupported, Indefensible and Just. Plain. Rude." does pretty much define many comment sections around the internet more and more. Maybe I should copyright the phrase.
Ed, you're wrong about Marilyn Monroe. Didn't you read the post? I'm right about everything in it based only on my feelings. Besides, I said I didn't like her. How can I be wrong in not liking somebody? Boy, I guess I just took you to school bubba!
Groucho Marx is funny? Way to go out on a limb there, Greg.
If it weren't for me people would turn to Edmund O'Brien for comedy. So thank you for supporting me in my limb-going efforts.
As for High Noon I actually nowhere in the post say it's bad. I just say that Outland is better. And it's better because High Noon is a rather dry, lifeless affair but, hey, if Fred "Stationary Camera" Zinneman and his amazing replications of stock footage techniques is your bag, who am I to argue?
No, but seriously, I'm right on everything. It's one of those things that once you accept it, everything else gets easier.
"No, but seriously, I'm right on everything. It's one of those things that once you accept it, everything else gets easier."
Which means you'll agree that Moon Zero Two is better than Outland.
By the way, regarding Peter Cushing: he played a deranged plastic surgeon in Corruption (1967), a film that's utterly unsane and strongly recommended.
Moon Zero Two is better than almost anything! I've not seen Corruption though, and since I love Mr. Cushing in all ways except Biblical, I must check it out.
So let it be written. So let it be done.
tdraicer: Interesting that most of the comments are about Bond-I'm reminded of the Trio arguing who was the best Bond in Buffy Season 6.
I like Goldeneye (not least for Xenia Onatopp) but Connery will always be the real Bond to me.
As for not finding Ms. Monroe sexy, my anatomy disagrees whenever I watch Some Long It Hot. Though part of it may be knowing she was pretty active in that department in real life.
The surviving BBC Cushing as Holmes suffer from low production values compared to the Brett Holmes, but Cushing is as good as you'd expect.
Pretty much agree on the rest.
And for my own 12 unsupported statements: The Giant Behemoth is a better movie (though with poorer FX) than The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms; Attack of the Crab Monsters is a minor classic; Jack Palance was the best Jekyll and Hyde; Gone With The Wind is unwatchable when Gable isn't onscreen; Star Trek the Motion Picture in the director's cut version is the best Star Trek movie; Ice Station Zebra would be a great film if the traitor wasn't obvious just from reading the credits; David Cronnenberg is over-rated; Stanley Kramer is under-rated; Tim Burton made 2 great films-Johnny Depp isn't in either of them; Lynch's Dune would work if they would just hack out all those pointless and annoying voiceovers and let the actors' faces tell you what they are thinking; Abbott and Costello stopped being funny when Abbott became heavier than Costello; I Accuse (still not available on dvd) is better than The Life of Emile Zola.
tdraicer:
I see I wrote "Some Long It Hot." I not only don't know where in my brain that came from, I don't want to know. (I'm sure you are all with me on that.)
tdraicer - Those statements are far more controversial than mine. Star Trek The Motion Picture, the Director's Cut, is a beautiful looking movie with a great kernel of a story idea in there. I bought the deluxe DVD edition of it when it came out and was more than pleased. I know most find it dreadfully slow but I like it, though I wouldn't rank it the best for my own list.
I'd like to see Dune again quite honestly. I thought the visuals looked very cool personally.
And the Marilyn thing, I just don't find that act of hers sexy and that's a big part of the turn-off for me. As for acting, while she's good in some things, like Some Like it Hot, it's The Misfits when she finally starts to grow on me and then, sadly, she died. THAT Marilyn I could like, even love. I just wish she'd come to her sooner.
For me, sexy is Marlene Deitrich in her forties and fifties: A slender frame, intelligent, worldly and slightly intimidating. Just FYI.
You know who else liked The Magnificent Seven? Akira Kurosawa, that's who. At least he liked the fact that he made more money from John Sturges' remake than Toho paid him for his own version.
Akiru was a great artist, both in making art and judging the work of other artists. I'm glad the remake brought him more money, he deserved it.
Agreed with Greg on The Misfits, which if you ask me is Huston's most underrated.
And Zinnemann a "stationary camera" filmmaker? Now THAT'S going too far!
What about the finale of High Noon when Kane and the outlaws are approaching each other and the camera just moves right along with them? Or the ending of A Man for All Seasons (awesome, awesome movie) when the camera rises up as the axe falls down?
Everybody hates Zinnemann nowadays. Well, you know something? I... I hate them, too! Hahahahaha!
Adam, and don't forget the camera sweeping up the beach as Burt and Deborah kiss in the waves before running ashore. Yes, Zinneman moved his camera, sometimes, but his m.o. as a director is, for the most part, bolt the camera down and have everyone act in front of it. For instance, in the movie you mention, A Man for All Seasons, which I just watched again last year, there's this feeling of lifelessness, or at least listlessness. I don't dislike it either, mainly because of Scofield, Shaw and Hiller, but so many other directors could have made it so much more. I don't hate Zinneman, I just find him very average.
As for The Misfits, I really wish Marilyn had explored many more roles like that in her short time in the sun. That's a movie where she finally starts to look and feel sexy to me, and she's not doing the parody schtick.
I almost forgot in all this but I like her in Niagara too. When I say "I never liked Marilyn Monroe" I'm saying I never liked "Marilyn Monroe", that persona. Monroe the actress, in Niagara and The Misfits I like very much actually.
tdraicer:
Mea Culpa-I somehow forgot Ed Wood in my remark about Burton and Depp. So the two did do one great film together.
Yeah, I love Ed Wood, in fact, it's my favorite Burton film. What were the other two you were referring to?
I disagree with some of what you say, but I absolutely love that you say it. Great post!
Thanks Cinemaphile! I appreciate it.
tdraicer: Greg, the other two I was talking about are Beetlejuice and The Nightmare Before Christmas.
But I agree Ed Wood is his best work, which makes it all the more bizarre I forgot it.
I was thinking about Beetlejuice again the other day because it's on Netflix Instant now. I liked it very much but it's been years since I've seen it.
Hey Greg, you posted all your guilty preferences just to be outrageous, right? Kudos, you succeed!
In regard to your preference for Vivien Leigh in STREETCAR, I've always thought her performance was deeply flawed because she basically puts all of her emotional goods in the shop window in the very first scene: her Blanche (emerging from tumultuous storms of train stream) is obviously ragingly disturbed and on the verge of a complete nervous breakdown. There's nothing new for us to discover. I think Leigh's own severe depression was actually a deficit in this role. Actors do better when they're ACTING. Just my opinion.
Margaret, thanks for the kudos!
For me, what's to discover throughout Streetcar is what brought Blanche to this point. She should be already disturbed the moment you see her. The audience should know from the first moment that this woman is delicately balanced and the play is about how she got there and how Stanley tears her apart.
Unfortunately, in the movie, the monologue that Blanche has about discovering her husband in bed with another man is cut so when she talks about the dance later and the suicide none of it makes much sense. But I do believe the intention is to have her almost broken from the first time we see her and I think Leigh did a wonderful job with it.
I can't believe I missed commenting on this! What was I doing on the 15th that I missed noticing this post? This totally sucks...
Oh, well, I may still follow up on the meme... I'm thinking on it...
Hey Neil, no problem. You were putting up your great guilty pleasure post on Bleeding Tree, that's what you were doing. And you were absolutely right! I don't expect anyone to do this but if you want to I'd love to see it.
My plan is this: Unsupported, Indefensible and Just. Plain. Rude. will become a feature I return to when I feel like saying something totally meaningless but need a shield to announce it from behind.
I hope you do more of them... and I really do hope it catches on, at least a little. I suspect most of us have a lot of these, some that we think someday we'll get around to expanding into a full blog post but never quite build enough interest to do so.
And, thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed the post.
Oh, and, yes, Dalton had potential to be THE BEST Bond, but was sadly saddled with pretty awful movies.
The Brosnan ones bug me more than the Moore ones - which isn't to say the worst of the Moore ones isn't worse than the Brosnan ones, because they are! - because they don't feel like they were even trying to be Bond movies. They're just big loud '90s action movies.
The Brosnan ones bug me more than the Moore ones - which isn't to say the worst of the Moore ones isn't worse than the Brosnan ones, because they are! - because they don't feel like they were even trying to be Bond movies. They're just big loud '90s action movies...
That's it! Neil, you're a genius. I've been trying to put my finger on what exactly it is about the Brosnan movies that I can't stand and that's it - they're just aimless loud action movies, not Bond movies! You should get some kind of award for that observation.
Now, I'm going to comment on your guilty pleasure post because I have something I've been meaning to say and it would be wrong to say it here and not there.
I almost forgot in all this but I like her in "Niagara" too. When I say "I never liked Marilyn Monroe" I'm saying I never liked "Marilyn Monroe," that persona. Monroe the actress, in "Niagara" and "The Misfits" I like very much actually.
I fully concur. To me, the most beautiful images of Monroe aren't the ones that scream, "SEX SYMBOL!", but those where her considerable natural beauty accentuates her humanity.
It didn't help her cause that she came up at a time when the studio system was winding down, replaced by a gaudy emphasis on bigness -- CinemaScope and the like. Consequently, we end up with an overblown Marilyn, way too overpowering to the viewer, sex symbol as the 50-foot woman.
If Monroe had been born 20 years earlier and come up in the '30s, she would have worked a lot more (probably making her a better actress) and the qualities that made her special would have been better used; she would not have portrayed as a parody. I don't want to say a '30s Monroe would have been like Jean Harlow, because Jean had an on-screen toughness that Marilyn largely lacked, but some of those elements might have been there.
I cordially invite you to visit (and join) my classic Hollywood community dedicated to another sexy comedic legend, Carole Lombard:
http://community.livejournal.com/carole_and_co/
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