Wednesday, January 27, 2010

Straight, No Chaser? Those Hurtin' Basterds

I watched The Hurt Locker recently and started thinking about the nature of film and how writers and directors use different approaches to achieve various results.  In this case I was thinking of war movies and specifically the two most recent I have seen, The Hurt Locker and Inglourious Basterds.   I started to think about those cocktail party distinictions between the Documentary-Style war film and the Hollywood war film.  Basically, the Doc-Style film, The Hurt Locker, has a gritty verisimilitude, an uncomfortable relationship with reality that keeps the viewer off-balance while the Hollywood war film, Inglourious Basterds, goes for fantasy and mythos and uses the language of film to achieve something that in the real world does not exist.  These days most war films fall into The Hurt Locker column but for decades most war movies fell squarely into the Inglourious Basterds one.  

Back in the forties and fifties Hollywood made almost as many war films as it made westerns but even when Hollywood was trying to play it in earnest, with films like The Sands of Iwo Jima, they still wore their patriotism on their sleeve and kept the physical horrors of war well hidden from the innocent audience.  There was the occasional film like Battleground to keep the Doc-Style fires burning but for the most part Hollywood went the other way.  By the sixties and seventies, with movies like Where Eagles Dare, The Guns of Navarone and Kelly's Heroes, the Hollywod war film became the standard and World War II - the greatest conflict in human history with over fifty million (some stats say 60) casualties, the first use of nuclear weapons on a civilian population and a wholesale and systematic genocide that shocked the world - became a backdrop for the latest action or heist plot.  While there were serious war films, like Battle of the Bulge or the biopic Patton, they still had a glossy technicolor finish that distinguished them from the gritty black and white of Battleground in the years before.  Some films like Tora, Tora, Tora even tried to overtly emulate a documentary style but still came off feeling like an action movie (at least its last 15 minutes), not a presentation on the horrors of war. 

Then by the late seventies Vietnam became a subject for war films and because the actual war had been seen in news footage during the sixties and seventies it seemed wrong to try and gloss it up for a movie version, as John Wayne had done with The Green Berets in 1969.  But somewhere between The Deer Hunter and Platoon, Rambo was born and suddenly Vietnam had the same Hollywood style action pics of old being made with it as a backdrop.  The Missing in Action movies would continue the trend.  It was in the nineties, with Saving Private Ryan in particular, that the gritty Doc-Style war film finally wound its way back to World War II but moreso found its new look with a decision director Steven Spielberg and DP Janusz Kaminski made to desaturate the colors for the film's in-the-field scenes and desaturation has been upon us ever since.  In fact, it has become so prevalent, achieving cliche status years ago, that most studios attempt to use it to repackage the past.  Below is the new DVD cover for Patton as well as the original cover.  The new cover takes the glorious technicolor of Patton and desaturates it in, I suppose, some sort of futile effort to fool the modern viewer into thinking that Patton has the same textures of the modern war films to which they have become accustomed.  That Inglourious Basterds nixed this approach and went back to the classic Hollywood style look seems downright revolutionary considering the now standard Doc-Style approach. 



But which is better?  Or is one better?  Or is it something to be taken on a case by case basis?  Most likely case by case as with most things in life.  I find I enjoy the Hollywood style more although at a younger age I would have certainly gone with the Doc-Style.  I can just see my younger self spouting nonsense about the gritty realism and the verisimilitude and how those older films, while great, didn't really give one the feel of war.  Well, yeah, I guess but cinema is an art form.  I'll never have the feel of war unless I go to war and listening to the stories of soldiers in interviews and seeing the horrific scenes in news photos and videos will bring the experience much closer to me than any movie so I turn to the cinema, as I always do, to give me something else.  I turn to the cinema for unique experiences that fall outside the range of the real.   I love The Bridge on the River Kwai precisely because it doesn't give me story of what it's like to be a prisoner of war under the Japanese, it gives me the story of a mentally unbalanced Colonel unwittingly helping the enemy and a slacker American soldier forced to go stop him.   There are certainly elements of realism throughout but that's not why I go to it.  I go to it for the story and the characters and how the war is used to support that story and those characters.  In many ways, Kwai is the best balance between both styles of war movies, giving us some realism and plenty of fantasy.  And it's here that my thoughts return to The Hurt Locker and Inglourious Basterds because they exist not in between, as Kwai does, but at opposite poles. 

I found The Hurt Locker to be an excellent example of Doc-Style war filmmaking but as Roderick Heath said to me an online conversation, I find it hard to have anything else but technical admiration for it.  It is intense, as they say, with one tension-building suspense scene after another.  The camera is hand held but not too shaky.  The shoot-out in the desert is brilliantly done.  But when they got to the end, and the heavy metal started playing and the lead character was back on duty I found myself profound unaffected on any real cinematic level.  Emotionally it worked as well as it could I suppose, and to it's credit it doesn't waste time trying to insincerely tug at the viewer's heartstrings.  It presents the situation as is (soldiers, death, bombs, diffusing, the end) and leaves it up to you to take or give whatever emotional response feels right.  But cinematically it felt too technically proficient and not artisically reaching enough. 


Should The Hurt Locker win Best Picture I will have no real qualms but given the choice between it and Inglourious Basterds I'll go with the basterds every time.  That movie, brilliantly using cinematic formalism to contrive a post-modern fantasy, felt alive to me and pulsating in every frame.  No shaky cam, no blurred action, no ramping, just steady shots following the characters in dialogue as their actions and words lead us to a fantastical conclusion that redefines both the Hollywood style war film as well as the Revenge Fantasy film, mixing Where Eagles Dare with Death Wish and then presenting the whole thing with the patience and confidence of a director not afraid to observe his characters and scenes until they are ready to exit on their own terms. 

I have several Doc-Style war films that I love but probably many more Hollywood style ones in the final analysis.  The Bridge on the River Kwai, falling in between as it does, will probably always be my favorite as well as many other 'tweeners, like Patton.   I may like the occasional straight up, no chaser serving of the gritty war drama, but in the end I think I prefer to have mine with a twist.

45 comments:

Marilyn said...

There are so many different approaches to war films. You can have an out-and-out farce like Dr. Strangelove or a farcical, but ultimately serious film like The Paper Will Be Blue or I Served the King of England, or pure action, like The Longest Day. How do you define war film, Greg?

Neil Sarver said...

I think the gritty and "real" is a young man's game, and not just in terms of war movies.

I certainly preferred gritty and "real" in my younger days myself, and I'm sure whatever I'd have picked for something like this would have reflected that.

But the older I get, the further my admiration goes there. Maybe I'm intellectually lazier, to some extent, but I think my maturity also allows me to see, as you say, that great realism still doesn't recreate the experience.

And so, for me, it comes down to what better captures the symbolic and thematic meaning. I find Hollywood style, as well as various other noticeably artificial to be strangely more honest.

That said, I still haven't seen The Hurt Locker, and I'm still quite looking forward to it.

bill r. said...

I thought THE HURT LOCKER was terrific, and very emotional, but I'd still take INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS every time. I don't know, despite all I've written about Tarantino's film, that I've intellectualized the formal reasons for that sort of preference in the way you've done here, Greg, but I think even if I did, and wrote dozens, or hundreds, of pages about it, it would all boil down to: I've seen movies like THE HURT LOCKER before. Not many as good, but I've seen them, and I'll see them again. I've never seen INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS before, and I never will again.

Greg said...

Marilyn, that's a tough one. For this piece I stuck to movies about the soldiers in the field (The Hurt Locker, Basterds, Where Eagles Dare, Saving Private Ryan, Patton, etc.) that were not presented as comedies. That's pretty general but for this piece it will suffice.

I've often wondered if something is a war movie simply because it takes place during a war. I know some books, sites, libraries and others classify films like Rome: Open City and Schindler's List as war films but I do not. To me a war film has to take place, in part, in the field and that includes covert operations whether it be The Guns of Navarone or Inglourious Basterds.

So battle, operations and soldiers. I guess that's the best I can do for now.

Greg said...

Neil, obviously I'm in absolute agreement with you but I don't think it's being intellectually lazy. Rather, I'd say the other way is. The other way where it's all given to you with no deeper meaning or hidden insights, where everything is laid bare so to speak. I think that's why it's easier in youth to go with the gritty realism because there's not as much to think about.

But as you say, sometimes (often with me) the Hollywood version feels more honest to the extent that it is dealing with the story in an interpretive fashion and not trying to convince me I'm seeing the real thing. That would seem more dishonest and when we're younger we fall for it.

Kevin J. Olson said...

Great post, Greg. I second what Bill says about Basterds. I don't think I'll ever see something like that again. I like that you point towards the dichotomy of war films. I don't know if you've seen The Messenger from this past year, but that sounded like (based on reviews I read) the mix you're talking about...except it was more of a Coming Home type of war film that mixes the reality of the after-the-fact with Hollywood melodrama.

I tend to like a good mix, but like you I'm always drawn toward the stylized. Maybe it's because I studied postmodern literature in college, or maybe it's because I appreciate the allusions of a filmmaker like Tarantino, but I just think that the WWII B-movies of the 60's and 70's were a lot better than the ultra-real war movies of today.

Malick's The Thin Red Line also did a great job of blending the two styles...again, though, a little differently than what you're talking about with your example of Kwai, but Malick's film is ethereal and contemplative, but also contains scenes of down-in-the-dirt realism.

Oh, and that cover art for Patton is a good example of how studios try and sell war movies now. It's quite sad, and like you, I was thrilled when I saw the posters for Tarantino's film being a call back to films like Kelly's Heroes and Where Eagles Dare.

Anyway...sorry for the rambling comment. Great post, Greg.

Greg said...

I've seen movies like THE HURT LOCKER before. Not many as good, but I've seen them, and I'll see them again. I've never seen INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS before, and I never will again.

Bill, I take my hat off to you. That's bloody brilliant and that's exactly my sentiment. Exactly. Thank you for summing it up for me so well.

And I agree, The Hurt Locker was excellent, I just didn't get as much an emotional connection as you did but I think that is to the movie's credit almost. In other words, it's presented in such a real way that there aren't any speeches or strings inserted to get a response from us. In fact, near the end SPOILER when Sanborn is talking about no one caring if he dies after watching the Iraqi family man explode it felt wrong. Nothing like that had been in the movie before that point and so that scene felt contrived to me and briefly took me out of the film.END SPOILER.

Marilyn said...

Greg - I think, then, you need to refine this category to combat film. I don't cast my net that narrow when I think of war film, because was is a global and catastrophic event usually of years' duration.

When it comes to combat films, I find the "you are there" style very unnerving. The most unnerved I've ever been in that style of film is in Platoon, though that film certainly has a lot of the Hollywood elements you describe. I think you can find some really gritty combat films more or less in the Hollywood mold - Zulu comes to mind, as does The Fighting 69th and the German film Das Boot. And I think I prefer those sorts of films for their artistry and subtext.

Greg said...

but I just think that the WWII B-movies of the 60's and 70's were a lot better than the ultra-real war movies of today.

Kevin, I like most of those even thought I disliked them when I was younger. I think I can appreciate now that after having lived through the depression, the rise of Nazism, World War II and the Holocaust the can-do generation didn't want to revisit it in any probing gritty realistic way and I can't blame them. At the same time they weren't afraid to use it as a jumping off point for some damn fine stylized action and adventure.

I think my favorite of the sixties is John Sturges' The Great Escape which, like Stalag 17, introduces some of the hardships of the POW camp, but doesn't focus on it and isn't afraid to mix in a couple of good chase scenes at the end as well.

bill r. said...

Thank you, Greg, though I don't know about "blood brilliant". That's just how I felt when I first saw Tarantino's film, that it was a film like no other, and it could only have been made, or even imagined, by one filmmaker, and that was Tarantino.

As for the spoiler you reference from THE HURT LOCKER: it didn't bother me as much as it did you, but I can see where you're coming from. The extent to which he was making his point seemed pretty hard to swallow. He seemed like a normal, well-adjusted guy, so why should he be so alone in the world? It's possible, of course, but it did feel like that speech came from out of nowhere.

Also, I love ZULU.

Greg said...

I think you can find some really gritty combat films more or less in the Hollywood mold - Zulu comes to mind, as does The Fighting 69th and the German film Das Boot. And I think I prefer those sorts of films for their artistry and subtext.

Zulu and Das Boot are two of my favorites as well. I still don't know if I'd want to just call it a "combat" film either as there isn't much combat in The Great Escape or Inglourious Basterds and yet I'd include them. I think I define by example in the piece more than anything else precisely because I don't know what title to apply. You're certainly right though, there are multiple genres of war film, from the combat (The Longest Day) to the melodramatic (Blackbook).

By the way, slightly off-topic, I think of Black Book more often than not and think that's one of the best choices we have had at Toerifc. I still can't believe Carrie van Houten didn't win one award after another for her performance in that.

Greg said...

Bill, since it wasn't a formal review of The Hurt Locker I left out a lot of good points, like how good everyone was, how inarticulate the dialogue was but not stupid (for instance not a lot of "whoa!" and "kick-ass!" and stuff like that but not for a second sounding like a screenwriter wrote it - except maybe that Sanborn scene), and how effective the suspense was.

Also, I was quite pleased to finally see a film in which it is made clear (after seeing hundreds of Bruce Willis style action flicks where people outrun fireballs) that the shock wave from an explosion can kill you, even if you're thirty yards away and wearing a protective bomb suit. It made the tension that much greater once the viewer understood the actual physics of how deadly all of this is.

bill r. said...

And than sniper scene. Not to harp on it, and you even brought it up yourself, but damn is that section brilliant. I don't think I've even seen that kind of combat portrayed in a way that gets across the amount of patience, and physical discomfort, and pure skill necessary to do that job, until THE HURT LOCKER. And the suspense is nearly unbearable. I didn't know what was going to happen.

And while part of me thinks that casting Guy Pearce and Ralph Fiennes in those roles (Pearce at the beginning, Fiennes in the sniper scene) was gimmicky, but another part of me thinks it was a bit of clever misdirection.

Greg said...

The sniper scene was great and played with the long take which I had just been singing the praises of here recently. That wait, the long drawn-out wait, after the guy in the window gets shot where they don't let their guard down for minutes. And of course, the patience and skill necessary to hit a target from that distance with heat lines blurring the sights, just incredible.

I really liked Christian Camargo as the psychiatrist too. SPOILER I thought his scene with the locals was well-done, even if you could see where it was heading from the get-go. But that knowing made it better. You just knew this green in the gills doctor who's trying to be friendly and civilized in this danger zone is going to get it good, and he does. END SPOILER

Erich Kuersten said...

Well observed about the desaturated color originating with goddamned Saving Private Ryan. I was pissed when Ryan lost to Shakespeare in love that year's oscars, but time has passed and they can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Inglorious Basterds kicks both their azzes!

Greg said...

Erich, so glad to see your comment. Truth is, Saving Private Ryan has lost a lot of its luster for me over the years. As with most things, time is the ultimate critic and Ryan's faults loom larger in my mind now than its strong points but it's a piece I need to write in full for a post here because it's too much for a single comment and more importantly, I don't hate it and think it merits a full write-up and explanation. But still, it's dropped quite a bit in my estimation over repeated viewings.

Anonymous said...

tdraicer:

Hope I'm not double-posting; if I am, my apologies.

tdraicer:

I'm a student of military history (and a designer of wargames) and so war movies have always interested me. Yes, very few war films show the blood and gore, but then humans adjust to blood and gore both as an audience and in reality pretty quickly. (The intestines spilling out in Private Ryan were shocking the first time, but not the third; real soldiers soon find themselves eating amid mounds of blown up bodies without giving it a thought. At least the ones who don't break.)

It is the boredom, the physical discomfort, the loss of freedom, and the fear of death or wounding that distinguishes real war from movies, and even if you could get all that into the viewing experience (spray your audience with cold mud and live lice perhaps, while shooting randomly into the theater now and then, and not allowing anyone to leave until the end) who would pay to see it?

My personal favorite war films are those that make a serious attempt to get the history (as opposed to the experience) right, but then history is my thing. Tora, Patton,Zulu, Zulu Dawn,The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far,Sink the Bismarck,The Desert Fox, MacArthur all work for me in those terms.

But I can also enjoy films that take serious liberties but still capture something of the mindset of the era. For example, the rather ahistorical Battle of the Bulge is redeemed for me first by its magnificent score, but also by Robert Shaw's capturing of the mindset of a certain sort of German officer, for whom wearing the army uniform was more important than the actual fate of the nation. (Something also captured by James Mason in The Blue Max.)

But I have no problem with the idea of a film taking war into the realm of fantasy-as with Inglorious. Though I do worry some viewers may think that is how we actually won the war.

Anyway-just some random thoughts.

Greg said...

tdraicer - First, you know that Tora, Tora, Tora is eventually going to wind up on "In the Land Before CGI" right, because the attack sequence is extraordinary in my opinion.

Second, you give a great description of what the real experience is like and though I have no personal experience with it your description certainly rings true.

Third, Robert Shaw is great in that role (and everything else he ever did for that matter). He's what I remember most whenever I think of Battle of the Bulge.

And fourth and finally, I guarantee you there are people who think we won WWII by killing the Nazi brass in a burning theatre. I'm sure we all have stories don't we? Just last year a neighbor who is my age (in her forties) and well-educated admitted ignorance in conversation when I made a joke about three people seated together at the party we were at by referencing the Yalta Conference. She'd never heard of it. I gave one of my patented "I'm trying to hide my disdain for you but I'm failing" looks and moved on.

Andrew said...

Where does "Ran" fall into to your grand scheme of things? To me it manages to feel like both a grand sweeping epic and gritty at the same time.

Would you consider "Breaker Morant" a war picture for this discussion?

Jason Bellamy said...

Terrific post. Add me to the list of folks who feel that Basterds is more masterful and overpowering than The Hurt Locker, though I suspect that as familiar as The Hurt Locker feels right now that it will stand the test of time better than some other films. The "Doc-Style" approach of The Hurt Locker is part of what makes it feel so familiar, but at this point I think we're all just bored of the setting. I mean, pick your favorite director ... could he/she set a modern war movie in the desert and give it a look/feel that sets it apart from all the other films set in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc? It would be difficult. It's a desaturated color palette from the very beginning. (By contrast, Tarantino made good on all those lush Nazi reds.)

Before I go, fucking excellent observation on the packaging for the Patton Blu-ray, which absolutely is trying to step way from the more dated jingoistic trappings in favor of aligning it with Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Flags of Our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima and any other recent desaturated pic I've forgotten to name.

Flickhead said...
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Flickhead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Greg said...

Sorry for being away so long, I was doing some video work and got carried away.

Andrew, Ran is such a beautiful scene with some extraordinary work. The battle scenes are at once quiet, lovely and horrific to look at. Kurosawa visualized things so imaginatively didn't he? I wouldn't call it a war film but my arbitrary assignment here was probably best defined by Marilyn as "combat" even if some don't really follow that definition all that well.

But sticking with Ran's combat scenes I'd say they fall, for me at least, in the stylized category, despite realistic blood and corpses. It's just so hauntingly beautiful, it transcends the gritty. Again, for me at least.

We discussed Breaker Morant here a few weeks ago after the death of the great Edward Woodward (and I've yet to find a person whose seen it who isn't thoroughly impressed and if so we should revoke their movie-watching license) and I hadn't thought of that. I think of that as a courtroom drama personally but it certainly is realistic without a doubt. As a war film I'd put it more towards the realistic style but it's so poetic I feel kind of stupid doing it (but I feel stupid doing a lot of things so it's okay).

Greg said...

I mean, pick your favorite director ... could he/she set a modern war movie in the desert and give it a look/feel that sets it apart from all the other films set in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc?

No modern director no but a few decades back I'd say David Lean. And that's a good transition to clear up for myself some of this. The battle scenes in Lawrence of Arabia are very realistic but don't have that gritty, dirty documentary look. Lean made them immediate and real but filled them with a visual artistry at the same time that set them apart from a standard graphically violent battle scene. And of course, that goes for Kurosawa too which Andrew brought up with Ran.

And yeah, I like the desaturation effect quite a lot at times but can we not try and make it seem like the technicolor war films of the past had the same look?

Greg said...

Flickhead - Goddamn your deleted comments. You make a great point and then delete it. Aaaarrgghhh!!!

I love your line about the only battle going on in the movie. Before you deleted it that is. Damn you.

Flickhead said...

Sorry, Greg. Here you are:

Given that one of its main characters announces himself an Australian "film critic" some thirty years before that term was even periperally acknowledged by the mainstream; and that his commanding officer (played by Mike Myers) accepted the vocation with a straight face and a hint of reverence should tell you that Tarantino's film is not only a cinephile's wet dream but also a flat out comedy.

I love Inglourious Basterds, but the only true war it depicts is the eternal one raging between the ears of its creator and those of us who willingly process its cine-fed lunacy as rational thought, a bubblegum reality where Hitler gets his on the sticky floors of a Bijou.

Greg said...

Flickhead, just wanted you to know how much I appreciate your point of view. This for instance:

I love Inglourious Basterds, but the only true war it depicts is the eternal one raging between the ears of its creator and those of us who willingly process its cine-fed lunacy as rational thought, a bubblegum reality where Hitler gets his on the sticky floors of a Bijou.

That's terrific and a good way to describe the pact between viewer/consumer and artist. We have to go into the agreement together. Some artists I don't want to meet halfway, others I do. It's a choice we all make that defines what art appeals to us. I was more than willing to meet the insanity of IB halfway but I can understand others not.

Flickhead said...

It’s also worth noting that Inglourious Basterds empowers its Jewish characters (Mélanie Laurent’s Shosanna; the scalp hunters working under Brad Pitt’s Aldo Ray… er, ah, Raine), separating it from most WWII pictures made before… well, before Jerry Lewis’s unreleased The Day the Clown Cried (1972). The Jewish role in the war and the holocaust itself went virtually unnoticed by Hollywood, which was too busy reveling in diatribes against Krauts and Nips and Dagos in that pre-PC Babylon. But Tarantino transforms the Jews into illustrations. I believe Laurent is a powerful presence in the film, but is she playing a character or an idea for one? Her relationship with the black projectionist goes unexplored by the script (icky romantic stuff for childlike QT) even though such a union would’ve been taboo at the time; her Jewish heritage is equally ignored (too much depth for childlike QT). I can only assume Tarantino’s inclusion of the Jews stems from the media’s gradual acknowledgement of the holocaust which began to filter through in the ‘70s. If he’d been aping The Guns of Navarone, Hell is For Heroes or Where Eagles Dare, they’d be nowhere in sight.

Anonymous said...

tdraicer:

>First, you know that Tora, Tora, Tora is eventually going to wind up on "In the Land Before CGI" right, because the attack sequence is extraordinary in my opinion.

Looking forward to it!

Greg said...

Flickhead, I agree with you on QT. I don't go to him for emotional depth but for something else although I'm not sure what. Outside of IB the only QT movies I ever liked were Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown. Neither spoke to me for very long and upon revisiting found I didn't get anymore from them, and in Pulp Fiction's case a lot less.

So I'm not a Tarantino fan and yet the sheer cinematic adventurousness of IB drew me in as well as the humor. Maybe it's because it didn't take place in the present so I didn't have to listen to hip dialogue but instead was treated to menacing tension building monologues by assholes like Landa. Seriously, I think the period helped a lot. Hip Tarantino dialogue in the present-day can get the revolver rattling in the teeth.

Greg said...

tdraicer, me too! I really enjoy that movie despite its poor reputation. I think it's quite suspenseful, no mean feat considering everyone knows how it's going to turn out.

Well, everyone except that neighbor of mine.

Flickhead said...

Greg, I'm with you on QT, though I honestly never cared for his earlier films. The "smart" dialog of Pulp Fiction was distributed evenly among the characters, thereby imbuing nearly everyone with the same personality (!). I never bought the hair-trigger tempers and wise ass personas. (Nor could I stomach that French woman who wanted "a little pot belly," an embarrassing bit of business one can only construe as QT's "Art Film.") Pulp Fiction struck me as artificial the day it came out.

What's different about Inglourious Basterds is the setting, a recognizable environment of dread and paranoia where most everybody would have that hair-trigger temper and attitude. Except, perhaps, for Diane Kruger's slightly Gen-Xish rant in the vet's office.

Flickhead said...

BTW, excuse the absence of The Diary of Anne Frank and The Pawnbroker in my previous comment about Jewish-themed films. I was addressing war (re: action) pictures without considering human dramas.

Greg said...

I assumed we were sticking to war related movies when you made that comment.

Not only is period one of the redeemers of IB and its characters but it would appear he's better at separating out his characters now (in reference to your astute observation that they're all the same character in Pulp Fiction) with Landa and Raines being extremely different in tone, vocabulary and attitude instead of being the same voice with two different accents.

Mrrspidey said...

Just wondered where you guys think THE LONGEST DAY and A BRIDGE TOO FAR fit in here. I think both try for the docu-style, but both, especially BRIDGE with it's sepia-toned reality, also takes a few steps over to the Hollywood style (love the music in both, by the way).

Greg said...

I'd put A Bridge Too Far with it's all-star cast and sixties-era feel squarely in the Hollywood style. The Longest Day goes for the doc style and for its day that is pretty much how the doc style approach was given the limitations of what could be shown. But definitely that's what it's going for, which is probably why I like Battle of the Bulge better. Still, I like both of them.

Anonymous said...

tdraicer:

The Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far were both based (quite closely) on two classic books by Cornelius Ryan and with their all-star casts I always think of Bridge as a sequel to TLD.

I saw Tora Tora Tora when it first came out (I was 12) and back then I probably didn't know how it ended, but I agree it is quite suspensful regardless. Speaking of scores, Jerry Goldsmith's complete score for the film was finally released on CD a few years back, and is one of my favorites.

BLH said...

I think The Hurt Locker works brilliantly for 90 minutes on a level of pure viscera and then nearly sinks itself in the last act by suddenly deciding it wants to be a "movie".

Greg said...

tdraicer, I watched it again on TCM last year and was very impressed with the attack scene and fairly impressed with the rest of it as well. I look forward to revisiting it soon for a post on it.

Greg said...

BLH, that's exactly what I was trying to express in my earlier spoiler comments about some of the stuff at the end that didn't feel like it quite connected to what came before. And to me, the last scene with the heavy metal guitar indicated that prior to all available evidence to the contrary, Kathryn Bigelow was under the impression she was directing a Vin Diesel movie.

Aneliya said...

Hurt Locker and I B are the only two war films I have seen in the last year. I liked both, but in my mind they don't share the same categorisation. While watching I B I was immersed in Tarantino's filmic references, with Hurt Locker I was (rahter horrifyingly) there.

Greg said...

They are both quite different and I guess that's a part of the distinction. They are both war films in the general sense but share little else in common. The Hurt Locker puts you in the middle of the action and IB puts you in the middle of the story, it's beginning, middle and end. Both were quite good at what they did, I just prefer the latter more.

Craig said...

Greg, thanks for this great piece, which helped me find a way to consider the two parts of Steven Soderbergh's Che, which I just wrote about if you're interested.

I'm also enjoying the discussion with all the comparisons, though I have to disagree with Marilyn about Platoon. I think Stone's film (like Born on the Fourth of July), is a Hollywood war film disguised as a documentary war film. The Barnes-Elias struggle may be based on actual experience, but the way Stone dramatizes it (complete with crucifixion imagery) is pure myth. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't put me in the action the way documentary-style war movies do.

Kimberly Lindbergs said...

For me Inglourious Basterds works as a pure exploitation film set in WWII (like the Italian movie it borrowed its title from or something like The Liberators with Kluas Kinski & George Hilton or Even Tinto Brass' Salon Kitty). I suppose it could also be considered a combat action flick in the style of The Dirty Dozen and The Great Escape if you like but even those movies take themselves more seriously.

I can't take Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds seriously as a "war film" at all since it's pure fantasy and really funny as Flickhead mentioned. I've always found it amusing that critics are so eager to over analyze Tarantino's movies since I consider them all basically exploitation flicks that would have played in a grindhouse and been ignored by critics 30-40 years ago. Now? They gets Oscar nominations which is flat out amazing to me. I do think that with Death Proof and now Inglourious Basterds Tarantino is really getting into his groove. When he's 65 he'll probably make his masterpiece which most film critics will hate and the Academy will ignore.

As for the Hurt Locker... I wish I could appreciate it more but I've never really enjoyed Bigelow's films and The Hurt Locker is no exception.

So in a nutshell I think Tarantino accomplished what he set out to do which is make an great looking & entertaining exploitation flick set in WW2. I don't think Bigelow really accomplished all that much with The Hurt Locker (and I'm not all that sure what she was trying to do) except she made a lot of male critics go "Wow! A woman can make an action movie." I'd be much happier if Jane Campion got as much attention for her film Bright Star but it seems to be getting ignored because it's a romantic film (and gasp! one of those awful historic biopics) that simply tells a beautiful love story.

But I digress... I think the best war films (and by war films I mean purely war dramas - not action/combat flicks or exploitation films) tend to be dark, gritty and capture a bit of the madness or horror of war (at least as family members & friends who experienced combat have expressed it to me). Those films are titles like Hiroshima Mon Amour, Overlord, The Deer Hunter, Apocalypse Now, The Sand Pebbles, Empire of the Sun, Black Rain and Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence right off the top of my head but I'm sure there are others.

The Great Escape is a personal favorite of mine and I love the movie but I've always considered it more of a prison film than a war film for one reason or another.

I suppose we all relate to movies differently and as others have said, it's hard for me to think of war films as merely Documentary-Style war films or Hollywood war films since there are so many subtle variations between every genre. Everyone defines movies differently based on their experience, etc.

Greg said...

Kimberly, thanks for such a great comment.

I can't take Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds seriously as a "war film" at all since it's pure fantasy and really funny as Flickhead mentioned.

Unfortunately, people like you and I and Flickhead don't run the Academy and when they compare a balls to the wall movie like Inglourious Basterds to The Hurt Locker they always think the gritty realistic one is better and I hate that. Of course, as you say, there are so many different types of movies that take place in war it's impossible to break it down to two but since I've been doing Cinema Styles I've been doing posts like these to help myself understand it more than anything.

The Great Escape, whatever it is, is in fact one of my favorite movies ever, no matter what the genre. And I still haven't seen Overlord but it's only a matter of time now that it's on Netflix Instant Viewing.