JONATHAN (TO BILL): You think you know something, don't you? You think you're the clever little blogger who knows something. There's so much you don't know, so much. Do you know the movie world is a foul sty? Do you know, if you rip off the fronts of movie studios, you'd find swine? The movie world's a hell. What does it matter what happens in it? Wake up, Bill. Use your wits. Learn something. The cities are full of movies, cgi-movies, ideas, dead ideas who've spent their lives making fortunes, being recycled again and again.
And then they die and leave the new ideas to the studio heads, the silly studio heads. And what do the studio heads do, these useless people? You see them in their concept meetings, at the best Oscar parties, every day by the thousands, drinking the money, eating the money, losing the money on cocaine and prostitutes, playing all day and all night, smelling of money, proud of their botox but of nothing else, horrible, faded, fat, greedy studio heads...
BILL: But they're alive! They're human beings!
JONATHAN: Are they? Are they really Bill? Are they human or are they fat, wheezing animals, hmm? And what happens to animals when they get too fat and too old?
54 comments:
Why are you yelling at me!? What did I do?! All I did was say that I think movies are pretty neat, and this is what I get! I thought you LIKED movies! I was just trying to be your friend. Well, I'm done trying. You and Marilyn can go off and be happy on an island somewhere, or you can both get eaten by sharks. I don't even care anymore.
I like it. The nihilist point of view of a widow murderer seems appropriate for Hollywood.
Sorry Bill, sometimes being the Merry Studio Head Killer gets the best of me. Anyway, I'll be taking the train to Frisco later today. Why don't you join me?
FilmDr, yeah, it was a pretty easy change. A couple of words here and there and it was almost as if Wilder had written it for studioheads.
Sure, I'll join you, Jonathan...somehow, though, I don't think you'll be making it to your destination...!!
Well if I don't be sure and say nice things about me in Santa Rosa. They must never know the truth.
What should I tell them? That you thought studio heads were the shit?
ONe person I'm convinced is not the shit is Glenn Kenny. He did a piece a few days ago about "mavericks" and mentioned Barbara Loden and her one and only directorial outing, Wanda, an incredible film. There were some things in his write-up about Loden being someone who just threw herself into the project, and a parenthetical comment about her husband Elia Kazan being the level-headed one who kept the film on the tracks. I strenuously objected to this assertion and said this is the kind of thing that has plagued female directors and producers for ages - it's really a man who made the picture great. Now, returning to this article to see about follow-up comments, I see that mine has been purged and the passage about Kazan vaporized as well.
I suppose Kenny didn't want to focus on anything political on a film blog (though this is relevant to a film discussion, maybe not the one he had in mind, however), but this kind of editing seems very dishonest to me. I think I'm going to be One Went Running on this blog.
Wow. I'm really surprised. That doesn't sound like him at all. He doesn't mind getting into politics ordinarily, believe me.
By the way, I'm not doubting you, I'm just surprised.
Bill - I've been a bit leery of his site for a while. I keep going over there and yet feeling dissatisfied with what I'm reading. I know others like him, but I'm just not that impressed.
Well, I do like him, and am in fact kind of friendly with him, in a regular-commenter-occasional-e-mail sort of way. I know he gets frustrated that his serious film writing gets very few hits -- which might lead him to not bother so much with that -- and about other things. Plus he's just naturally very, erm, testy. So I don't know. I still like him, but I can't blame you for being frustrated.
We all have favorite bloggers that we go to that none of the rest of us do. I've only visited Kenny's blog a couple of times. I've nothing against him, it's just not a place I ever connected with.
I did have something similar happen to me a little over a year ago at another blog. And it's really odd that this should come up here because the post it happened on was about Shadow of a Doubt. I'll not bring up the blogger but I've never commented with him again. He had made observations that I disagreed with and I made counter arguments in my comment (comment 1). He then countered those (comment 2) and I came back more strongly with another round of arguments (comment 3). Apparently these he couldn't counter because when I returned he had excised his counter-argument and put in it's place "I didn't really mean that seriously" concerning his original statement in his post. This was now comment 2.
At that point, my second counter-argument, comment 3, now looked as if it was coming after he had said "it wasn't serious" so now it looked like I was unfairly and obsessively piling it on. I was furious but the way his blog was set up (no wordpress or blogger) you couldn't delete your comments. I really just couldn't believe it. It was jaw-dropping to me that a blogger would do that kind of thing.
Bill, I'm happy you enjoy him, and that others do, too. It's just not the right place for me.
Pat left a comment at my place that was pretty snarky toward Rod personally for his negative review of Revolutionary Road. Rod has a temper on him, so I was worried about keeping it up on the blog. Ultimately, I decided that I can't go about censoring people to avoid arguments (even those I fear will be flame wars). I just said my piece and informed Rod to count to 10. I'm glad I handled it that way.
It was jaw-dropping to me that a blogger would do that kind of thing.
I told you I was sorry.
Pat left a comment at my place that was pretty snarky toward Rod personally for his negative review of Revolutionary Road. Rod has a temper on him, so I was worried about keeping it up on the blog. Ultimately, I decided that I can't go about censoring people to avoid arguments (even those I fear will be flame wars). I just said my piece and informed Rod to count to 10. I'm glad I handled it that way.
I saw that this morning! I wanted to make some popcorn or something, but then you had to come along and be reasonable. Thanks for nothing, Marilyn.
Also, no one ever gets mad at me at my blog. That's something I have to work on.
Also, no one ever gets mad at me at my blog. That's something I have to work on.
Whatever jerk-ass prickwad!
Oh wait, I'm supposed to get mad at you at your blog. And no, it wasn't Bill that pulled the comment switcheroo, it was a real blogger who was more known back in the day. He did come straight off my blogroll though.
As in I removed him from it posthaste!
Bill - If you really like flame wars, I'll give you the URL of the discussion board I used to frequent. Rod and I met through it (and we both met the hubby there, too), and he still participates. There's a relatively large flare-up about every month or so, with minor skirmishes in between. Every year or so, there is a huge explosion. I left during one of those, and only commented there last year to torture some of the people on the Election 2008 thread.
Marilyn, I do think internet fights are pretty funny. In the old days, I'd take part in them myself from time to time, and get all worked up about it, but then I realized, "Wait. Why am I getting angry about something a stranger typed at me?"
I wish I could feel that way, Bill. I know that one person on the board loved them - they were like going to a prize fight - but this group of people has been "together" for more than 10 years (it started at the New York Times site when they had online forums), many of us had met in person, and certain community characteristics that favored aggression and various levels of misogyny had grown. These were not funny wars at all for me.
Well, that's different. My attitude is based solely on fights with strangers. If one of you guys started a fight with me, I would go off. And lady, that's something you don't want in your life. You hear me?
In my defense, I did back down some from my original snarky comment - I really don't enjoy fighting on comments threads, and feel embarassed about my initial overreaction.
You don't have to defend yourself, Pat. I actually was thinking of you. Rod has a wicked temper, and I didn't want him to haul off on you. You're far to good a person to be flamed for a moment of pique.
Thanks, Marilyn. That makes me feel a whole lot better. I would hate to think I had pissed off anyone who's been as encouraging to me as you have been. Maybe I will get up the courage to come back today with some addtional, more reasoned thoughts about "Revolutionary Road."
Jonathan, thanks for adding the Chabrol banner to your blog!
Wow, work sucks. It always takes me away from a good discussion. So Rod has a wicked temper huh? Maybe Bill and I should go have some fun with him on his next review.
And I get so tired of Pat's flame comments. Boy, is there anyone more abusive on the internet than Pat? I'm kidding of course because Pat is so completely the opposite of that in my mind.
Anyway, seriously Marilyn, if I made a joke over at Ferdy of the kind I make here with Bill - like "Yeah, what Pat said! What's your problem Roddy Rod?" would that piss him off or would he "get" it? 'Cause I'm really getting tempted here.
Flickhead, no problem, I look forward to it. I could just go with one I've seen, like Ceremonie but I think I'll try something else out by him.
He might play along; he also has a great sense of humor when he's in the mood. I know he's been trying to control his rage, too. Trouble is, life sucks for him a lot, and he's frequently pissed off in general. Kid him at your own risk, and remember that he's asleep during our daytime, so you won't have a chance to say just kidding for several hours.
I may try out Chabrol's Rendell or Highsmith adaptation...I've never taken part in a blog-a-palooza before.
Kid him at your own risk, and remember that he's asleep during our daytime, so you won't have a chance to say just kidding for several hours.
Ah, forget it. Too much trouble.
When you guys had that exchange, did you pretend that you were Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men? (Jonathan = Jack; Bill = Tom)
P.S. Super, duper hi-five on that banner today Lapper!! HAHA! Love it!
We all have favorite bloggers that we go to that none of the rest of us do.
True, but I think we all agree that Fox @ TRACTOR FACTS is the best blogger of all time.
He's really good looking too.
No, Jonathan pretended he was Joseph Cotten, and I pretended I was Teresa Wright.
He had made observations that I disagreed with and I made counter arguments in my comment (comment 1). He then countered those (comment 2) and I came back more strongly with another round of arguments (comment 3). Apparently these he couldn't counter because when I returned he had excised his counter-argument and put in it's place "I didn't really mean that seriously" concerning his original statement in his post. This was now comment 2.
At that point, my second counter-argument, comment 3, now looked as if it was coming after he had said "it wasn't serious" so now it looked like I was unfairly and obsessively piling it on. I was furious but the way his blog was set up (no wordpress or blogger) you couldn't delete your comments. I really just couldn't believe it. It was jaw-dropping to me that a blogger would do that kind of thing.
Huh?!? Wha??
Fox, thanks on the banner. I've been hiding it for awhile. Good to get it out.
As for the exchange, yeah, um... what Bill said. See, it's kind of odd to imagine being actors from another movie when the exchange itself is a famous one from a really famous movie already.
And as for the "huh wha" are you saying you don't understand the story or what the very rude blogger did? Because I can clarify it more if need be.
Billie Jean, I'll trust you on that.
No, Jonathan pretended he was Joseph Cotten, and I pretended I was Teresa Wright.
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As for the exchange, yeah, um... what Bill said. See, it's kind of odd to imagine being actors from another movie when the exchange itself is a famous one from a really famous movie already.
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Oh, I see, it's jerkface day here on Cinema Styles!!!
Jerkface day is Tuesday. Come on Fox keep up.
Also, the "huh wha" - which part was in question?
I was just joking about how convoluted the whole sounded.
My whole was convoluted? I'll set up an appointment to get that fixed.
You would be good in a movie called Jerkface/Other People.
Or Tuesdays with Jerkface.
That's my favorite book. I hope Bill does a piece on it for his "Overshadowed" series. I think Walter Mathau and Paul Reiser are the leads in the movie version of it.
That actually would be funny if Bill took the tv movie Tuesdays with Morrie with Jack Lemmon and Hank Azaria and treated it as if it was a massive success overshadowing the book.
As for the book, the real book, not your favorite book Tuesdays with Jerkface, I thought it was a maudlin, pathetic piece of tripe, at least the short bursts of it's embarrassingly prosaic prose I could get through.
And now let us never speak of it again.
Can we talk about The Five People You Meet In Heaven?
In fact, let's meet about it, in a coffee shop, and share our feelings on it. And then shake each others hands.
Just the idea of that book makes me want to puke.
Jonathan - Steve's going to run you Slumdog piece tomorrow (Friday the 6th). www.beachwoodreporter.com
He thought it was excellent!
Thanks Marilyn, that's great to hear. Thanks for all your help with it. I had wanted to update it once more before but I never got an answer from Fox Distribution. The person I emailed wanted to talk about it on the phone but I never got any other info to actually call him, so... not much I could do.
Aaaaaaand...
Fifty.
I had wanted to update it once more before but I never got an answer from Fox Distribution.
Sorry, my bad. The answer was ... uh, er ... yes?
Fiiifty....TWO!
And congratulations on your article getting picked up, Jonathan, that's great!
I fully expect a Pulitzer will come out of this. Possibly a book deal. I can't imagine I'm setting myself up for disappointment.
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